Fine as far as it goes, but public/private only matters to the extent others are affected.
Joel Send a noteboard - 09/07/2011 11:15:33 AM
In both cases it boils down to who has authority over a persons body, them, or someone else, so answering each question differently is inconsistent at best and hypocritical at worst.
my opinion of something is based on whether its a private or public thing. what people do in private is different to what people do in public. abortion is a private thing, it happens in hospitals not on the street. helmets wearing however is a public thing.
or to put it another way:
if you own a huge bit of land and want to act like a reckless tit-end on it, then that's your prerogative. acting like a reckless tit-end on a main road however is unacceptable.
make sense?
That's why you can't ban wearing shirts that say, "religion is dumb" or "environmentalism is immoral". Denying people the liberty to express offensive views infringes on their rights far more than hearing them infringes on anyone elses, so we don't do it. "Recklessness" is rather the central issue here; we and our laws generally accept that people can be fairly reckless with their own lives, but not those of others. Again, that's why you can bungee jump off a public bridge or sky dive through public air; it's rather absurd to say things things like that should be legal but the state has the authority to force motorcyclists and bicyclists to wear helmets to "keep them safe". Likewise, the fact you're on your own private land doesn't give you the legal right to torture and murder other people (which is one of the reasons people argue against even private abortions, and if a fetus could be proven a person the law would be on their side), it just means the cops need evidence to suspect you before they can come look for proof. Forcing others to live as you think best doesn't keep anyone safe, even if you convince 51% of the public to agree on what's "best". And by the way, I find all the talk of childishness a rather amusing attempt to justify what amounts to "everyone must do what I say and anyone who won't is stupid".
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Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 09/07/2011 at 11:21:07 AM
You can't make this stuff up: Helmet law protester dies in crash
05/07/2011 08:47:14 PM
- 1001 Views
Kinda undermines his protest
*NM*
05/07/2011 09:01:50 PM
- 298 Views

How so? He wasn't demanding the right to survive crashes when only a helmet makes that possible.
05/07/2011 11:06:44 PM
- 658 Views
New York feels that people should have to wear helmets for their own safety
05/07/2011 11:20:36 PM
- 623 Views
He felt his own safety was his own concern.
06/07/2011 12:07:05 AM
- 552 Views
Who do you think would have ended up paying for his care for the rest of his life if the accident
06/07/2011 01:08:49 AM
- 712 Views
The same people who pay for everyone else whose actions render them vegetables.
06/07/2011 01:50:20 AM
- 829 Views
Maybe a more effective argument you could use against me would be pointing out
06/07/2011 02:33:21 AM
- 621 Views
what a fricking idiot
05/07/2011 10:02:17 PM
- 790 Views
That's your opinion to which you're entitled.
05/07/2011 11:19:36 PM
- 1048 Views
Anarchy, baby! *NM*
06/07/2011 12:58:23 AM
- 516 Views
Sorry, as an advocate of civil rights (which especially includes minorities) I oppose anarchy.
06/07/2011 01:18:19 AM
- 713 Views
The public's nose is on the line here too.
06/07/2011 01:47:08 AM
- 750 Views
So my increased ease of hearing/seeing vehicles and other hazards isn't worth $1200.
06/07/2011 02:25:53 AM
- 764 Views
I understand the pov, I had a BF who felt that same way. It's still much like childish defiance.
06/07/2011 01:26:15 AM
- 948 Views
In part it's a matter of principle, but if we really want to analyze it there's some deeper validity
06/07/2011 02:13:05 AM
- 724 Views
you keep spreading falsehoods, stop it please
06/07/2011 02:49:01 AM
- 896 Views
Sounds like your real argument is with the other bikers; I'm just reiterating their arguments.
06/07/2011 03:38:39 AM
- 819 Views
Uh Joel...
06/07/2011 03:38:24 AM
- 659 Views
Agreed, having others in the car does make a difference.
06/07/2011 03:47:53 AM
- 731 Views
Hence why your "I wouldn't wear a seatbelt in the back seat" comment didn't make a lot of sense
06/07/2011 07:38:50 PM
- 699 Views

Depends on whether the driver, rather than the law, is the one insisting.
06/07/2011 08:06:24 PM
- 567 Views
You'd place your own comfort over other people's safety?
06/07/2011 11:37:00 PM
- 598 Views
It's more a comfort issue than anything else; it's not solely one.
06/07/2011 11:56:28 PM
- 1082 Views
Hold the phone here...
06/07/2011 07:49:10 PM
- 1026 Views
+1 *NM*
06/07/2011 08:42:14 PM
- 360 Views
You agree with him that the abortion debate is about a mothers convenience versus the babys life?
06/07/2011 10:48:52 PM
- 732 Views
im not bringing abortion into this, its a separate issue *NM*
06/07/2011 10:56:17 PM
- 355 Views
It's really not.
07/07/2011 12:20:10 AM
- 758 Views
i'm really not
07/07/2011 03:34:23 PM
- 832 Views
Fine as far as it goes, but public/private only matters to the extent others are affected.
09/07/2011 11:15:33 AM
- 799 Views
Holding the phone here might be good, yes....
06/07/2011 10:33:46 PM
- 816 Views

See...that's the difference between you and me
06/07/2011 10:56:53 PM
- 908 Views
Apparently so; "completely anarchy as long as its regulated to one's body" sounds nonsensical to me.
06/07/2011 11:44:50 PM
- 889 Views
I'm with Joel. I always buckle up/helmet up, but I think such laws are asinine
06/07/2011 02:30:04 AM
- 575 Views
why not just ban motorcycles all together, they are much more dangerous than cars
06/07/2011 05:39:51 PM
- 596 Views
Helmets help save lives. 'Onest.
07/07/2011 04:40:42 PM
- 757 Views
So do not smoking, eating right and regular exercise, but we haven't made them mandatory.
09/07/2011 11:04:58 AM
- 755 Views