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Re: Re:I know that Camilla Send a noteboard - 27/07/2011 09:04:24 AM
the American system of justice can often seem disproportionately harsh, particularly, for me, in its treatment of minorities, but it certainly seems as though this is a case where a European system skews far too much in the other direction. Twenty-one years for ~80 premeditated deaths? This is a situation in which I wish I didn't understand the statistical implications of division.


If he is sentenced to prison, it will most likely be for 30 years (because they are planning to use a different paragraph in the law). If he is sentenced to "being secured" (I have no idea what the equivalent is in English), then that sentence can in theory be continued for as long as he lives.

I don't doubt that he's insane, because his actions were pure madness. The length of time that it took to kill all those young people on that island is indicative of a lack of moral fiber. While I'm something of a bleeding heart, I wish there were a way to extradite him to the US to face capital punishment.


Well, I don't. In fact, I am quite proud of the fact that Norway's justice system is not about revenge. There is no way of giving him a sentence which mirrors what he has done. It cannot be done. The prison sentence therefore becomes a matter of symbolic punishment, and (more importantly) about keeping him away from the public.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
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Large explosion in Oslo and nearby shootings Mark - 22/07/2011 03:52:56 PM 2040 Views
A bit too convenient for an accident, I'd say. Tom - 22/07/2011 03:54:38 PM 767 Views
I agree Mark - 22/07/2011 03:59:16 PM 767 Views
Why do you care about making a claim? You're not a reporter. Tom - 22/07/2011 04:53:06 PM 779 Views
Because I was making the post to tell people what was happening Mark - 22/07/2011 05:26:11 PM 753 Views
He IS reporting LadyLorraine - 22/07/2011 11:46:30 PM 675 Views
Let's not get ridiculous. Tom - 23/07/2011 02:10:26 AM 747 Views
Police in Oslo have confirmed it was a bomb. *NM* Wibble - 22/07/2011 04:15:04 PM 662 Views
Not good - two reported dead so far snoopcester - 22/07/2011 04:23:03 PM 758 Views
Re: Not good - two reported dead so far Camilla - 22/07/2011 04:26:15 PM 728 Views
I've long assumed this was the case. Joel - 22/07/2011 04:28:40 PM 696 Views
Ah, I has suspected so snoopcester - 22/07/2011 04:32:14 PM 644 Views
I thought everyone loved Norway! Camilla - 22/07/2011 04:26:25 PM 745 Views
'cept Whales snoopcester - 22/07/2011 04:31:01 PM 749 Views
Hey, I wouldn't put something like this past Green Peace. Joel - 22/07/2011 04:37:40 PM 693 Views
I would. *NM* Camilla - 22/07/2011 06:52:38 PM 671 Views
Your faith is greater than mine then. Joel - 22/07/2011 10:26:54 PM 693 Views
Sounds like you're confusing Greenpeace with PETA. *NM* Legolas - 22/07/2011 10:53:18 PM 674 Views
Earth First is more likely. Joel - 22/07/2011 11:14:33 PM 766 Views
And 8-11th century Irish and Brits Stephen - 22/07/2011 05:20:07 PM 712 Views
Pics of the site look eerily similar to the Murrah building after the OKC bombing. Joel - 22/07/2011 04:27:03 PM 679 Views
NRK says a press conference is imminent; we'll hopefully know more soon. Joel - 22/07/2011 04:48:07 PM 746 Views
This ain't cool. *NM* LordPerrin - 22/07/2011 04:55:21 PM 709 Views
It is terrible. Spriteling - 22/07/2011 05:13:24 PM 671 Views
There are allegedly also people firing at the youth camp of the Labour party at an island Camilla - 22/07/2011 05:26:29 PM 763 Views
Are Labour the ruling party? Mark - 22/07/2011 05:28:51 PM 701 Views
Yes. One of three. Camilla - 22/07/2011 05:33:42 PM 783 Views
That's horrible. Stephen - 22/07/2011 05:42:07 PM 697 Views
I hope the perpetrators are made to suffer kHz1000 - 22/07/2011 05:53:38 PM 717 Views
7 confirmed dead, 2 severly injured, several with minor injuries. Maria - 22/07/2011 06:45:32 PM 728 Views
and at least 9 additional dead on Utøya... *NM* jh - 22/07/2011 09:23:25 PM 680 Views
Utøya was just.... terrible. Maria - 22/07/2011 09:58:18 PM 706 Views
Despite all these jihadi groups claiming responsibility the police seem to think they are. Camilla - 22/07/2011 09:37:08 PM 768 Views
It sounds a lot like that, yeah; the parallels with OKC are rather striking. Joel - 22/07/2011 10:25:42 PM 834 Views
I know a lot of people are going to be dissapointed if its not a Muslim Aisha - 22/07/2011 10:58:12 PM 733 Views
Re: I know a lot of people are going to be dissapointed if its not a Muslim Camilla - 22/07/2011 11:03:56 PM 792 Views
Not at all. Joel - 22/07/2011 11:35:12 PM 773 Views
Norwegian papers article, in English: Joel - 22/07/2011 10:51:32 PM 876 Views
so "Youth camp" doesnt mean little kids right? Aisha - 22/07/2011 11:05:42 PM 709 Views
I gather 14-18 years old *NM* Isaac - 22/07/2011 11:07:37 PM 642 Views
wow.... *NM* Aisha - 22/07/2011 11:11:34 PM 658 Views
HS kids, from what I can gather. Joel - 22/07/2011 11:45:30 PM 744 Views
The person arrested is Anders Behring Breivik Lews_TherinThelamon - 23/07/2011 01:14:58 AM 703 Views
At least 80 dead so far. Great Lord of Chaos - 23/07/2011 03:09:38 AM 832 Views
Oh I feel sick Aisha - 23/07/2011 03:55:04 AM 791 Views
Yes. *NM* Camilla - 23/07/2011 07:25:46 AM 684 Views
Wow, that's horrible *NM* ßelals Girl - 23/07/2011 05:55:11 AM 702 Views
“It seems kind of unreal, especially in Norway. This is not something that could happen here.” Ghavrel - 23/07/2011 10:23:48 AM 719 Views
Yeah, but it is quite shocking in such a normally placid country. Joel - 23/07/2011 04:04:04 PM 794 Views
Norwegians cops dont carry guns? Aisha - 23/07/2011 08:05:07 PM 702 Views
Re: Norwegians cops dont carry guns? Camilla - 23/07/2011 09:01:28 PM 743 Views
It's Europe; guns are a lot more heavily regulated. Joel - 23/07/2011 09:32:15 PM 735 Views
Holy crap ironclad - 23/07/2011 11:06:32 AM 717 Views
Sounds like an anarchist, i.e., left-wing nut..... *NM* trzaska2000 - 23/07/2011 03:10:55 PM 654 Views
Which explains why he was a member of the far RIGHT party until he became too extreme for even them. Joel - 23/07/2011 03:55:54 PM 703 Views
Try Christian fundamentalist Helene - 23/07/2011 04:12:55 PM 701 Views
Eerm, yeah...What Joel said ironclad - 23/07/2011 04:40:21 PM 754 Views
There's very few facts for anyone to be working with Isaac - 23/07/2011 05:52:26 PM 677 Views
Just having switched off the latest news... ironclad - 23/07/2011 06:21:09 PM 676 Views
The picture may change as more becomes known, but you only said what the police have publicly said. Joel - 23/07/2011 07:24:02 PM 636 Views
Re: Just having switched off the latest news... Isaac - 23/07/2011 09:01:36 PM 623 Views
The official facts we have are clear enough to validate Jens' statement. Joel - 23/07/2011 07:21:46 PM 555 Views
Why can't we just call him a wing-nut and agree? jh - 23/07/2011 07:27:33 PM 814 Views
why cant we call him a terrorist? Aisha - 23/07/2011 08:01:33 PM 692 Views
Because terrorist attacks only happens to the US. jh - 23/07/2011 08:21:05 PM 677 Views
Poes Law, man, Poes Law. Joel - 23/07/2011 10:02:45 PM 658 Views
I'm fine with that; the media here's certainly calling him a terrorist. Joel - 23/07/2011 09:59:15 PM 661 Views
i noticed the Norwegians are calling it a terror attack Aisha - 24/07/2011 03:17:53 AM 690 Views
Christian media bias, eh? Joel - 24/07/2011 03:48:22 AM 681 Views
In the Netherlands they're calling him a Christian fundamentalist. *NM* Helene - 24/07/2011 07:13:48 AM 677 Views
Sorry, new laptop. Joel - 23/07/2011 09:59:15 PM 621 Views
oh, please. *NM* Camilla - 23/07/2011 09:09:40 PM 634 Views
My thoughts echo yours. Joel - 23/07/2011 03:54:22 PM 681 Views
The people of Norway are in everyones thoughts and prayers. *NM* dart_board - 23/07/2011 12:51:38 PM 728 Views
This is awful, *NM* Nolan - 23/07/2011 03:43:37 PM 678 Views
Absolutely tragic. Sick sick person. *NM* Avendesora - 23/07/2011 03:58:15 PM 612 Views
A victim's account Great Lord of Chaos - 23/07/2011 05:40:01 PM 784 Views
By the way - too bad Norway doesn't have the death penalty.....very justified in this case. *NM* trzaska2000 - 23/07/2011 08:44:32 PM 621 Views
Very much true kHz1000 - 23/07/2011 09:31:14 PM 675 Views
Actually, it's more like "too bad the maximum Norwegian prison sentence is 21 years". Joel - 23/07/2011 09:33:52 PM 742 Views
21 years? Wow, what a stupid system..... *NM* trzaska2000 - 23/07/2011 09:41:18 PM 658 Views
Re: Actually, it's more like "too bad the maximum Norwegian prison sentence is 21 years". Camilla - 23/07/2011 09:43:12 PM 800 Views
Anything less than execution is wrong..... trzaska2000 - 23/07/2011 09:52:07 PM 717 Views
By the Grace of God, that's not your call to make. Joel - 23/07/2011 10:06:05 PM 692 Views
92 murders = execution trzaska2000 - 23/07/2011 10:09:33 PM 717 Views
I brought up God because you're not Him. Joel - 23/07/2011 10:12:43 PM 705 Views
God doesn't decide anything in society, people do..... trzaska2000 - 23/07/2011 10:15:43 PM 661 Views
Yes, a huge portion of the world is OK with summary execution, but nowhere you or I want to live. Joel - 23/07/2011 10:34:28 PM 700 Views
Nowhere? - the majority of US citizens support the death penalty *NM* trzaska2000 - 23/07/2011 10:57:25 PM 645 Views
Not in any form as cut and dried as you presented. Joel - 23/07/2011 11:27:52 PM 704 Views
Yeah, supporting the concept isn't the same as supporting the application..... trzaska2000 - 24/07/2011 02:25:33 AM 666 Views
Doubt can never be completely eliminated from any equation, hence the standard's "reasonable" doubt. Joel - 24/07/2011 03:35:02 AM 684 Views
Yes it can, the two cases I mentioned have no doubt regarding guilt..... *NM* trzaska2000 - 24/07/2011 04:42:13 AM 621 Views
Again, believe what you like, just don't impose it on anyone else. Joel - 24/07/2011 12:02:01 PM 667 Views
I don't think that the Norwegian criminal system is based on that ideal. Great Lord of Chaos - 24/07/2011 03:03:42 PM 615 Views
Which almost without exception makes a lot more sense. Joel - 23/07/2011 10:04:48 PM 694 Views
If Norwegians are fine with their 21 year law why should it bother you? Aisha - 24/07/2011 03:24:56 AM 772 Views
For some reason it's his business. Joel - 24/07/2011 03:51:36 AM 764 Views
Makes sense Aisha - 25/07/2011 01:36:13 AM 750 Views
Sacrificing freedom to protect it has never been logical, and is perhaps the most "un-American" act Joel - 25/07/2011 03:53:22 AM 615 Views
Sacrificing freedom to protect has never been logical, and is perhaps the most "un-American" of acts Aisha - 25/07/2011 05:36:21 AM 630 Views
... Camilla - 25/07/2011 12:46:40 PM 655 Views
Re: Sacrificing freedom to protect has never been logical, and is perhaps the most "un-American" snoopcester - 25/07/2011 01:25:13 PM 677 Views
You need a reason for one, but if you nominally satisfy that minimal requirement they're available. Joel - 25/07/2011 05:28:23 PM 710 Views
they don't seem to have a problem voicing an opinion about our death penalty *NM* random thoughts - 26/07/2011 02:12:33 PM 768 Views
Yes, if they dish it out, they should be prepared to take it. jh - 26/07/2011 04:05:23 PM 704 Views
I have a feeling Praziquantel - 24/07/2011 04:08:34 AM 695 Views
Not at all. Luckily, we don't have death penalty Maria - 24/07/2011 09:16:28 AM 744 Views
Right wing terrorism always confused me. Dragonsoul - 24/07/2011 04:44:34 AM 737 Views
I don't understand how anyone can be a fascist. *NM* Helene - 24/07/2011 07:15:16 AM 641 Views
I don't understand how any Italian can not be. *NM* Dragonsoul - 24/07/2011 01:51:34 PM 710 Views
Cause fascism didn't do much good for Italy? *NM* Helene - 24/07/2011 05:06:34 PM 635 Views
Bahaha yeah except 20 years of peace, prosperity and effective government. Dragonsoul - 25/07/2011 12:06:35 AM 668 Views
It's important to distinguish between Roman and modern fascism. Joel - 25/07/2011 03:48:24 AM 720 Views
The problem with that is simple. Dragonsoul - 25/07/2011 02:15:38 PM 632 Views
I can't speak to Italian civil liberties under Mussolini, but the little I've heard contradicts you. Joel - 25/07/2011 04:27:54 PM 655 Views
Wikipedia, really? Dragonsoul - 25/07/2011 05:07:28 PM 709 Views
Merely for convenience; the things I linked (e.g. blackshirt murder campaigns) are common knowledge. Joel - 25/07/2011 07:00:22 PM 616 Views
Actually yes, he does. Dragonsoul - 26/07/2011 03:23:20 AM 648 Views
Actually, I know quite a bit about fascism in Italy Helene - 25/07/2011 08:29:04 AM 763 Views
If you did... Dragonsoul - 25/07/2011 02:05:31 PM 555 Views
You're full of it... and apparently you don't know it. *NM* Helene - 25/07/2011 06:40:14 PM 641 Views
Again, use facts... Dragonsoul - 26/07/2011 03:24:02 AM 728 Views
I'm too amused by your unfounded accusations of ignorance Helene - 26/07/2011 06:13:42 AM 603 Views
I don't debate with the ignorant. Dragonsoul - 26/07/2011 01:43:07 PM 639 Views
My guess is they're viewed as "collaborators". Joel - 24/07/2011 12:05:00 PM 685 Views
Even so. Dragonsoul - 24/07/2011 01:55:08 PM 680 Views
Yeah, I can't really explain it; it's insane behavior. Joel - 24/07/2011 04:57:27 PM 660 Views
/ignoring the ridiculous fascism stuff... on the subject of killing your own Camilla - 25/07/2011 04:36:01 PM 700 Views
Regardless. Dragonsoul - 25/07/2011 05:17:36 PM 665 Views
That's tempting, saying he isn't a "real" or "true" nationalist. Legolas - 25/07/2011 09:20:38 PM 736 Views
Well I just don't comptrehend how he could be a "true" or "real" nationalist... Dragonsoul - 26/07/2011 03:25:35 AM 682 Views
That's clearly not true snoopcester - 26/07/2011 10:35:05 AM 638 Views
I'm pretty sure it's against nationalism as anyone defines it. Dragonsoul - 26/07/2011 01:43:56 PM 706 Views
See? snoopcester - 26/07/2011 02:05:09 PM 622 Views
Right, but... Dragonsoul - 26/07/2011 10:47:29 PM 713 Views
Yes he is on the far right snoopcester - 26/07/2011 10:54:06 PM 667 Views
I'm hardly a fanatic. Dragonsoul - 27/07/2011 12:23:09 AM 545 Views
You do come across that way here. snoopcester - 27/07/2011 11:05:26 AM 668 Views
Maybe to you, then again if you want to talk about how people come across on the internet... Dragonsoul - 27/07/2011 10:05:39 PM 707 Views
That makes sense snoopcester - 27/07/2011 11:27:29 PM 657 Views
How would a Nazi killing ONLY aryans be a Nazi? Dragonsoul - 28/07/2011 06:27:03 AM 703 Views
Remember how the Nazis killled socialists and other people who disagreed with them? That is how. *NM* Camilla - 28/07/2011 07:40:24 AM 613 Views
and don't forget it was how the far left killed the people they did like as well random thoughts - 28/07/2011 11:47:26 AM 642 Views
Sorry but when was the USSR nationalistic? snoopcester - 28/07/2011 12:40:46 PM 632 Views
Great Patriotic War ring a bell? Dragonsoul - 28/07/2011 06:04:02 PM 636 Views
And how was that nationalistic? snoopcester - 28/07/2011 08:05:01 PM 628 Views
Can you read? Dragonsoul - 28/07/2011 06:02:13 PM 665 Views
The rather famous Night of the Long Knives not ring a bell? snoopcester - 28/07/2011 10:34:47 AM 622 Views
Again, I said a Nazi who kills ONLY aryans. Dragonsoul - 28/07/2011 06:03:00 PM 689 Views
So you know for a fact that every Nazi who killed a fellow Aryan nazi that night also killed others? snoopcester - 28/07/2011 08:01:35 PM 627 Views
I have no idea why I want to jump into this but I would just point out two things random thoughts - 28/07/2011 12:46:56 AM 686 Views
Okay that's fair. Dragonsoul - 28/07/2011 06:28:57 AM 692 Views
So horrible. *NM* everynametaken - 24/07/2011 06:24:28 AM 647 Views
Apparently, he plagiarised tehe UNA-bomber in his manifesto Camilla - 24/07/2011 02:52:36 PM 694 Views
Wow, that's impressive, in all the worst senses of the word. Joel - 24/07/2011 05:05:24 PM 631 Views
Unfortunately Anders was a product of this delusional age cmdjing - 24/07/2011 07:15:28 PM 862 Views
I suppose that was intended to be as cryptic as it sounds? *NM* Legolas - 24/07/2011 09:43:49 PM 593 Views
Cryptic's accurate enough but some other descriptions come to mind *NM* Isaac - 25/07/2011 06:58:42 PM 605 Views
I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. In a dubious, halfhearted sort of way. Legolas - 25/07/2011 09:21:55 PM 701 Views
Dear God, I hope they don't give him the platform to preach his crap ironclad - 24/07/2011 10:07:37 PM 715 Views
it seems he has won, he has a fan on this website in fact, just look at the thread below yours Aisha - 25/07/2011 05:33:39 AM 668 Views
Having read his manifesto and watched his youtube video... Dragonsoul - 25/07/2011 01:50:07 AM 656 Views
Oh, so killing people who are NOT HIS OWN would have been ok? *NM* ironclad - 25/07/2011 10:38:50 AM 610 Views
Would have been understandable. Dragonsoul - 25/07/2011 02:03:31 PM 672 Views
Much as it pains me to say, most of his victims were almost certainly not Christian. Joel - 25/07/2011 07:04:21 PM 677 Views
Again. Dragonsoul - 26/07/2011 03:26:51 AM 640 Views
I'm amazed that one person could cause this level of death. Tom - 25/07/2011 05:35:33 AM 675 Views
I too was surprised Aisha - 25/07/2011 05:45:10 AM 643 Views
I'm told it takes most of an hour just to DRIVE from Oslo to Utøya. Joel - 25/07/2011 07:14:16 PM 654 Views
galveston wouldnt need police from houston, they have police on the island. Aisha - 25/07/2011 09:22:40 PM 651 Views
That's because Galveston is more than 26 acres. Joel - 25/07/2011 09:39:06 PM 714 Views
See below: Joel - 26/07/2011 02:03:27 AM 657 Views
If there were reports that someone was slaughter children? random thoughts - 25/07/2011 10:18:45 PM 663 Views
A local with a deer rifle vs. a man in combat armor with an automatic rifle and military training? Joel - 25/07/2011 10:36:54 PM 512 Views
yes local, who would have military training as well, could have taken him with a deer rifle random thoughts - 25/07/2011 11:17:08 PM 715 Views
Theoretically; bear in mind that Charles Whitman spent two full hours killing people in the UT tower Joel - 26/07/2011 12:54:51 AM 753 Views
More on response time; it could have been better, but was more like an hour than hour and a half. Joel - 26/07/2011 01:59:30 AM 716 Views
they still are working under the assumption that they had to use heavily armed special forces random thoughts - 26/07/2011 03:09:05 PM 617 Views
The level of planning is what made it possible, and what makes it so chilling. Joel - 25/07/2011 07:25:23 PM 645 Views
I really wish they would stop mentioning he was a fan of True Blood *NM* Aisha - 25/07/2011 05:47:16 AM 598 Views
In the middle of all this, why is that important to you? *NM* Milla - 25/07/2011 09:04:54 AM 690 Views
its important to me to know why its important enough to mention Aisha - 25/07/2011 09:15:11 PM 632 Views
And ego shooter games, as if they were the final trigger *NM* ironclad - 25/07/2011 10:40:33 AM 612 Views
And the fact that he was a Eurovision fan kHz1000 - 25/07/2011 11:23:48 AM 655 Views
are political party sponsored youth camps common in Europe? random thoughts - 25/07/2011 07:13:00 PM 690 Views
It is the labour youth organisation's summer camp Camilla - 25/07/2011 09:11:57 PM 670 Views
sorry but that just seems very odd to me random thoughts - 25/07/2011 10:08:07 PM 648 Views
Re: sorry but that just seems very odd to me Camilla - 25/07/2011 10:20:27 PM 673 Views
that would make a big difference random thoughts - 25/07/2011 10:32:52 PM 660 Views
I think most such organizations have a somewhat older membership - 16-25 or so. Legolas - 25/07/2011 10:30:04 PM 642 Views
having children who are passed their teens I still considered teenagers kids random thoughts - 25/07/2011 10:57:50 PM 647 Views
Yeah, I guess that'd depend on your perspective. Legolas - 25/07/2011 11:17:17 PM 645 Views
Re:I know that Gaps - 27/07/2011 03:39:47 AM 707 Views
Re: Re:I know that Camilla - 27/07/2011 09:04:24 AM 668 Views
Re: He took lives. Gaps - 28/07/2011 12:23:43 AM 528 Views
are we really so bored and entrenched that we are debating the motives of a mad man? *NM* random thoughts - 26/07/2011 02:13:38 PM 638 Views
Quite. *NM* Rebekah - 26/07/2011 06:03:30 PM 618 Views
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