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If that's the case it's hard to say they overreacted. Joel Send a noteboard - 10/08/2011 01:22:45 AM
This is the UK, not the USA. Guns are illegal, it was a specific operation from a specific task force who had specific intelligence that a gun was involved. Else they wouldn't have been there.

It remains to be seen what the full facts are, but if he had a gun, and so far everything points to it, then he gave up his right to be treated as a normal citizen the minute he got one, and he opened himself up to a world in which he can get shot. A police officers duty should always be to protect himself and the general public, not to wait for the guy with the gun to do something.

To bring this into perspective, just over 6000 police officers in the UK are licenced to carry guns. This is in 2007-8, the last year i can get figures for. Operations with guns were authorised just over 21,000 times, that's right they need to be signe doff and authorised. In 2007-8, of those 21,000 operations, a conventional firearm was discharged, how many times?...7...just 7. How many people died?...0...none.

In the last 13 years, only 4 people have been shot dead by the police that I know of, and this is the first in 4 years. So anyone out there who is trying to portray the police as murderers, or think they fired lightly or anything else. Really, this is the UK, we take this shit seriously, we investigate it seriously, and we learn from EVERY death.

However, all the facts I have on this case are second hand, I've never lived in Britain so I can only compare it to situations with which I am familiar and, perhaps most importantly, everything I've said in this thread has only gotten me in trouble, so it's time to cut my losses. When you're in a hole, stop digging, and all that. :<img class=' />
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London snoopcester - 08/08/2011 12:08:35 PM 2256 Views
i freaked out when i heard about that Yunalesca - 08/08/2011 02:09:10 PM 1491 Views
Re: i freaked out when i heard about that snoopcester - 08/08/2011 02:47:16 PM 1330 Views
It's pretty scary. Rebekah - 08/08/2011 02:19:51 PM 1339 Views
I found it somewhat last night, having a sister who lives in Brixton snoopcester - 08/08/2011 02:50:57 PM 1385 Views
I'm sure the media will manage to blame the police somehow Wibble - 08/08/2011 03:11:40 PM 1319 Views
I've been following the story. Spriteling - 08/08/2011 03:26:51 PM 1324 Views
I cannot quite make out what is going on Camilla - 08/08/2011 03:27:57 PM 1489 Views
No, that's about it as far as we know Wibble - 08/08/2011 03:40:15 PM 1534 Views
Re: I cannot quite make out what is going on snoopcester - 08/08/2011 03:40:21 PM 1395 Views
Continue to use live ammunition until no one is protesting. *NM* Tom - 08/08/2011 03:53:50 PM 735 Views
Sounds good to me *NM* Wibble - 08/08/2011 04:06:04 PM 741 Views
Okay, bored of these riots now, time for the police to follow 10CCs example... Wibble - 08/08/2011 09:28:36 PM 1420 Views
Given what has been reported snoopcester - 08/08/2011 04:07:13 PM 1451 Views
So, did the original suspect have a gun/fire bullets? beetnemesis - 09/08/2011 04:19:16 PM 1431 Views
Had a gun, didn't fire snoopcester - 09/08/2011 06:51:54 PM 1373 Views
Not actually true Wibble - 09/08/2011 07:01:33 PM 1318 Views
Seems it isn't exactly but I'm not sure your reply is 100% true either snoopcester - 09/08/2011 07:27:00 PM 1435 Views
Now that's a good point Wibble - 09/08/2011 07:45:26 PM 1385 Views
I think with both they're putting disclaimers in snoopcester - 09/08/2011 08:56:17 PM 1399 Views
There's no evidence he didn't fire? Imagine that. Joel - 09/08/2011 11:22:05 PM 1333 Views
He's saying the evidence available is inconclusive either way. Rebekah - 09/08/2011 11:37:06 PM 1405 Views
Fair enough. Joel - 09/08/2011 11:56:16 PM 1450 Views
There are various proofs snoopcester - 10/08/2011 12:06:41 AM 1323 Views
True, but if tests are inconclusive rather than merely incomplete those proofs may not be available. Joel - 10/08/2011 12:47:34 AM 1384 Views
Bullshit Wibble - 10/08/2011 01:12:46 AM 1260 Views
If that's the case it's hard to say they overreacted. Joel - 10/08/2011 01:22:45 AM 1248 Views
I do see why it matters if he fired or not random thoughts - 10/08/2011 12:46:12 AM 1292 Views
Again, I don't know the British standard, so I can only guess how it works. Joel - 10/08/2011 12:54:20 AM 1380 Views
Though if he had a gun, in a sock, not drawn... beetnemesis - 10/08/2011 01:50:05 AM 1344 Views
sadly the rioters didn't wait for facts random thoughts - 10/08/2011 02:56:46 AM 1493 Views
They've announced that the "unknown" gun was never fired beetnemesis - 10/08/2011 02:04:26 PM 1346 Views
So? Are the police supposed to let him get the first shot? *NM* random thoughts - 10/08/2011 03:15:59 PM 751 Views
...said Gaddafi. *NM* Tim - 10/08/2011 12:11:31 AM 707 Views
And?... *NM* Wibble - 10/08/2011 12:17:51 AM 683 Views
And we just went to war with him because he was shooting people in the street. Tim - 10/08/2011 09:56:07 AM 1371 Views
Last time I checked, you guys have a vote. First past the post, sure, but it's still a vote. Tom - 10/08/2011 04:33:07 AM 1315 Views
Is there any other country that has a death penalty for children caught stealing? *NM* Tim - 10/08/2011 10:02:56 AM 740 Views
Maybe not, but we can hope there is... *NM* Tom - 10/08/2011 02:04:38 PM 685 Views
You can hope there is. Tim - 10/08/2011 02:21:17 PM 1347 Views
...you guys need a poster named Tam, and a sitcom, stat. *NM* beetnemesis - 10/08/2011 05:11:57 PM 742 Views
+1 Yunalesca - 10/08/2011 05:17:22 PM 1349 Views
Wibble is called Tam (Scots) or Tom (English), and used to go by dragon_tam. Tim - 10/08/2011 05:27:16 PM 1439 Views
LMAO *NM* Aisha - 10/08/2011 06:22:11 PM 746 Views
If you want to talk statistics... Tom - 13/08/2011 08:26:39 PM 1293 Views
So the death penalty is a deterrent for the crimes it doesn't apply to, but not for those it does? Tim - 14/08/2011 10:58:14 AM 1508 Views
No, that wasn't my point. Tom - 14/08/2011 09:39:14 PM 1450 Views
light yagami felt the same way Yunalesca - 14/08/2011 01:20:02 PM 1526 Views
Please speak English. *NM* Tom - 14/08/2011 09:39:46 PM 732 Views
They think they have a good reason for what they're doing snoopcester - 10/08/2011 11:48:52 AM 1295 Views
If they react even more indignantly to a harsh crackdown, maybe they do. Tom - 10/08/2011 02:06:04 PM 1209 Views
Oh? snoopcester - 10/08/2011 04:05:55 PM 1392 Views
This is the first I've heard of it; here's hoping and praying the damage is restricted to property Joel - 08/08/2011 06:59:06 PM 1397 Views
I am sure dart_board - 09/08/2011 06:34:40 PM 1378 Views
I don't recall mentioning any of those groups in connection with this. Joel - 09/08/2011 07:29:01 PM 1313 Views
You will. *NM* dart_board - 10/08/2011 12:14:22 AM 693 Views
I've had plenty of opportunites and still didn't, even when rt practically teed one up for me. Joel - 10/08/2011 12:25:09 AM 1336 Views
This is utterly awful. Rebekah - 08/08/2011 09:41:46 PM 1468 Views
Yeah - it has massively spread today. Just saw footage of youths looting a Sainburys in Birmingham snoopcester - 08/08/2011 09:52:32 PM 1350 Views
And if they had got the army out Wibble - 08/08/2011 09:57:40 PM 1359 Views
That's true. Rebekah - 08/08/2011 10:03:03 PM 1340 Views
pfft Yunalesca - 08/08/2011 10:23:37 PM 1278 Views
I think the vast majority of people would be just fine with it snoopcester - 08/08/2011 10:08:34 PM 1511 Views
They call it "martial law" for a reason. Joel - 09/08/2011 02:30:40 AM 1373 Views
Might work in the US snoopcester - 09/08/2011 02:13:50 PM 1387 Views
When most of the looters are kids I can see how that would be problematic. Joel - 09/08/2011 05:18:09 PM 1365 Views
Joel I don't believe any looters were shot in the Rodney King riots random thoughts - 09/08/2011 05:41:44 PM 1327 Views
Police were, from what I understand, hard to find during those riots. Joel - 09/08/2011 05:51:11 PM 1347 Views
I am just questioning the logic of the debate taking place here random thoughts - 09/08/2011 06:33:11 PM 1320 Views
Your notoriously faulty memory is by far the lesser problem here. Joel - 09/08/2011 07:14:07 PM 1600 Views
That article supports my argument random thoughts - 09/08/2011 08:55:15 PM 1270 Views
OK I blame the site for this random double post. I hit submit once. random thoughts - 09/08/2011 08:55:17 PM 1322 Views
I can't really argue with anything you've said here, so I won't try. Joel - 09/08/2011 11:11:17 PM 1485 Views
so now you are comparing the rioters to the Tea Party? I guess dartboard was almost right random thoughts - 10/08/2011 12:51:46 AM 1432 Views
I'm comparing alienation to alienation and noting that it's pervasive. Joel - 10/08/2011 01:19:49 AM 1421 Views
and I am saying you have no idea who the tea party is random thoughts - 10/08/2011 03:06:15 AM 1309 Views
I guess I should've used the Progressive Caucus instead. Joel - 10/08/2011 04:25:30 PM 1394 Views
Seriously, is it mostly kids? nossy - 08/08/2011 10:08:00 PM 1276 Views
They don't have parents Wibble - 08/08/2011 10:10:07 PM 1483 Views
A hell of a lot seem to be snoopcester - 08/08/2011 10:12:21 PM 1334 Views
I'd be tempted to go down there with a cattle prod. nossy - 08/08/2011 10:14:14 PM 1408 Views
I think there might be too many of them snoopcester - 08/08/2011 10:23:05 PM 1339 Views
If that link still isn't working, try here snoopcester - 08/08/2011 10:29:19 PM 1290 Views
I know that if I had ever participated in anything like that, my mother would have kicked my ass. Avendesora - 09/08/2011 08:48:09 PM 1456 Views
its getting absolutely mental Yunalesca - 08/08/2011 10:21:32 PM 1298 Views
Congratulations Ken Livingstone Wibble - 08/08/2011 11:44:29 PM 1369 Views
Agree on the first part snoopcester - 09/08/2011 01:05:01 PM 1361 Views
Um... This is the first I've read / heard about it Two Wongs - 09/08/2011 03:43:02 AM 1291 Views
Looks a bit like a post-apocalyptic sci-fi movie Sports_Gambler - 09/08/2011 06:38:59 AM 1422 Views
Apparently that's a surprisingly common error. Joel - 09/08/2011 12:34:30 PM 1388 Views
Horrible Mark - 09/08/2011 11:18:21 AM 1258 Views
Yes snoopcester - 09/08/2011 12:55:00 PM 1445 Views
Tumblr blog where ppl are submitting pictures of the looters Two Wongs - 09/08/2011 12:49:39 PM 1309 Views
People have set up the same thing on Facebook and flickr as well snoopcester - 09/08/2011 01:23:42 PM 1359 Views
... Two Wongs - 09/08/2011 04:12:55 PM 1356 Views
Before and after pictures of buildings/businesses from BBC Fox and Ravens - 09/08/2011 02:12:24 PM 1513 Views
Holy crap, what is wrong with those people?? ironclad - 09/08/2011 02:23:39 PM 1329 Views
how does 'they are brainless idiots' grab you? *NM* Yunalesca - 09/08/2011 05:03:51 PM 649 Views
What's with that last picture set? Nate - 09/08/2011 04:39:53 PM 1352 Views
Never figured the Iranian government for having much of a sense of hunour, snoopcester - 09/08/2011 02:26:01 PM 1428 Views
The hypocricy there is mind-boggling. *NM* Macharius - 09/08/2011 05:03:28 PM 675 Views
I imagine that's the point. Nate - 09/08/2011 05:33:09 PM 1467 Views
That was my take on it as well snoopcester - 09/08/2011 07:03:51 PM 1409 Views
Re: That was my take on it as well Camilla - 11/08/2011 11:32:12 AM 1449 Views
*sprays water over laptop screen* Yunalesca - 09/08/2011 05:07:07 PM 1362 Views
lol wow...that was a bit much *NM* Aisha - 09/08/2011 05:26:33 PM 641 Views
To be fair Sidious - 09/08/2011 06:24:58 PM 1766 Views
You make a fair point. snoopcester - 09/08/2011 07:05:26 PM 1267 Views
Send in the army! Two Wongs - 09/08/2011 11:37:15 PM 1266 Views
That is just lovely. *NM* Camilla - 11/08/2011 11:27:34 AM 678 Views
Remember you're a womble! Zeeb - 09/08/2011 06:49:52 PM 1361 Views
Yes snoopcester - 09/08/2011 07:09:35 PM 1387 Views
Re: Yes Zeeb - 09/08/2011 07:32:18 PM 1342 Views
i can see the smoke from the sony factory fire out of my bedroom window Yunalesca - 09/08/2011 07:21:08 PM 1397 Views
This is all quite... surreal. It's hard to believe. Avendesora - 09/08/2011 08:54:57 PM 1302 Views
The surreal thing is London is still full of tourists who seem to not have a care in the world snoopcester - 09/08/2011 09:03:11 PM 1310 Views
Well, it's not really anti-foreigner sentiment, is it? beetnemesis - 10/08/2011 01:57:55 AM 1397 Views
Not yet but then it isn't pro either snoopcester - 10/08/2011 10:25:13 AM 1380 Views
She has a grandson to meet for the first time, then she's off traveling with a friend. Avendesora - 10/08/2011 03:27:37 AM 1370 Views
Well to clarify, it isn't that I think it is very unsafe just not a good time to go somewhere snoopcester - 10/08/2011 10:19:03 AM 1268 Views
I'm flying to the midlands tomorrow. Helene - 10/08/2011 07:35:28 AM 1332 Views
It seems to be only happening in the evenings and at night. Tim - 10/08/2011 10:59:55 AM 1296 Views
I have been keeping an eye on it; we have friends in Highbury Druid - 10/08/2011 05:07:16 AM 1453 Views
Re: I have been keeping an eye on it; we have friends in Highbury snoopcester - 10/08/2011 10:47:46 AM 1468 Views
Oi!!! Druid - 11/08/2011 04:40:04 AM 1541 Views
Aussie, Aussie? snoopcester - 11/08/2011 11:50:47 AM 1467 Views
I saw Nick Griffin's twitter last night Stephen - 10/08/2011 12:23:01 PM 1288 Views
Yeah, I saw he had been. He's a great little scum bag snoopcester - 10/08/2011 12:47:34 PM 1389 Views
*dual facepalm* Yunalesca - 10/08/2011 02:45:03 PM 1368 Views
Effing EDL snoopcester - 10/08/2011 09:28:41 PM 1466 Views
I liked this blog Camilla - 11/08/2011 11:29:42 AM 1356 Views
Quite good snoopcester - 12/08/2011 02:57:35 PM 1402 Views
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