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Fair enough Isaac Send a noteboard - 12/09/2011 11:03:10 PM
And in their case it often tends not to be rhetoric, I'm moderately indifferent though I am a bit curious to see if anyone will call him out on it who previously threw a fit about violent rhetoric.

And didn't hear about it until trzaskas thread here, but it's every bit as bad as the rhetoric in which Perry and Palin have indulged (in fact, I think it's probably worse). As I said of them and reiterated to Tash now, in the current tense climate we can't afford to go around casting our political conflicts as "wars" in which our supporters are "armies" who must "take out" opponents, then excuse it by simply tacking on "peacefullyofcourse" as an afterthought. Desperate angry zealots do enough deadly things without political leaders actively inciting them; anyone who does that deliberately lacks the decency to lead and anyone who does so thoughtlessly lacks the judgement.


At least you're consistent, and on this so am I. I do feel Hoffa stepped beyond the line of civility, but not beyond the line of acceptable, or at least, not far beyond, and only the teamster's not-undeserved reputation for violence even makes me throw a flag down. People, especially public figures speaking at events, do need to watch their language and avoid anything that might make a marginally rational person seriously consider violence, and I think Hoffa's words to that audience definitely comes close if not exceeding that safety line but for the most part the standard I hold people to is not much below what I'd consider incitement to riot. Make no mistake, I do think politicians, especially in prepared remarks, should pick their words with care, but I'd not want to see, say, a pro-lifer speaking before a pro-life crowd say "Those who favor abortion have developed bunker mentality, refusing to compromise on any proposal, well we've got to adapts our bombs to break those places where the abortionists hide" thrown to the wolves for what would be, I think we agree, an absolutely horrible jaw-dropper choice of wording, and I'll extend Hoffa that same courteous if grudgingly.

EDIT: And just to be clear, I'd fully support prosecuting Hoffa for reckless endangerment in response to his comments, just as I would Perry in response to his comments about Bernanke etc. etc. It's vitally important that inciting violence is tolerated no more in those with whom we share political goals than in those we oppose; it MUST be unacceptable in EVERYONE.


We've discussed this before, and as I've said, I fully support prosecuting those - especially those holding or seeking high office - who are actually inciting violence. But there must be mens rea, and even short of prosecution and conviction where that must be reasonably proven, in the court of public opinion I for one expect at least a little bit more proof of that then "I hate the guy, so he clearly meant to incite violence." I do not believe for a moment that Perry meant to incite violence, nor has he apparently done so, and lacking much beyond my dislike for Hoffa and the Teamsters, I've nothing to backup a claim that he intended to incite violence, so I won't accuse him of it.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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Hoffa Threatens GOP At Obama Event: "Take These Son Of Bitches Out" - 05/09/2011 07:42:59 PM 793 Views
What a douchbag *NM* - 05/09/2011 08:37:00 PM 165 Views
Violent rhetoric from the teamsters is not surprising - 05/09/2011 09:27:54 PM 567 Views
I was sans internet after the 1st. - 12/09/2011 10:32:55 PM 432 Views
Fair enough - 12/09/2011 11:03:10 PM 462 Views
Re: Fair enough - 13/09/2011 12:47:19 AM 451 Views
No disagreement in principle - 13/09/2011 03:55:19 AM 557 Views
No, union leaders = criminals, union leaders = thugs. - 05/09/2011 09:43:25 PM 493 Views
Yeah, cause violent rhetoric works so well with Liberal Ideology. - 05/09/2011 10:54:11 PM 452 Views
of course it does you just live in denial *NM* - 06/09/2011 01:39:03 AM 245 Views
Shows what you know. I've never even BEEN to Egypt. *NM* - 06/09/2011 03:15:17 PM 164 Views
So nobody at all bothered to look for an unedited version of the speech? Really? - 08/09/2011 12:04:50 AM 531 Views
I did, but it's not really pertinent to most of our comments - 08/09/2011 04:02:42 AM 369 Views
I am tired of anyone getting their panties in a bunch on purpose because they choose to interpret - 09/09/2011 01:43:14 AM 686 Views
+1 *NM* - 12/09/2011 11:30:52 PM 270 Views
You're preaching to the choir - 12/09/2011 11:46:08 PM 485 Views
For me that video changes nothing; his rhetorical imagery was unacceptably violent. - 12/09/2011 10:28:00 PM 450 Views
I don't think that we can afford to watch every single little thing we say and obliterate any - 13/09/2011 12:56:34 AM 414 Views
Terms from fighting probably can't be ignored; terms from war can be. - 13/09/2011 02:07:17 AM 529 Views
get your facts straight - 13/09/2011 03:39:29 AM 398 Views
I did: "Addressing a political rally in Iowa on Monday... - 13/09/2011 04:26:57 AM 607 Views

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