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It is important to distinguish between cautious and combative attitudes. Joel Send a noteboard - 09/11/2011 02:24:43 PM
I am very ambivalent about that, 'cos the fact is: You very well might, and the cop has no way to know beforehand. I am actually more surprised cops here are not more cautious in that respect, because every time they pull over a speeder they roll the dice, plain and simple: They could get to the window and find a little gray haired old lady who can barely see the road through her cataracts, or the Hells Angel who has that little old ladys dismembered body in the trunk: Luck of the draw.

I dunno, I suppose cops here just don't have much reason to be cautious beyond the regular level. You make an extreme example with the Hells Angel, but even someone with a corpse in their trunk are less likely to have a gun ready here than just the axe they used. To leave the extreme cases: in every day situations where cops stop someone speeding who just had the worst day of his life, is now about to lose his license and all common sense, he is less likely to reach for a gun over here, so the cops have no reasons to have their hands on their's either.

True and so, but I would expect a cop encountering the axe murderer (a question whose answer is impossible to know beforehand) to go for their gun rather than trying to overcome an axe with a baton. It certainly does not help that guns are more common in the US (or so I believe; I do not know the German regs on private citizen gun ownership, but would expect them to be more strict) and killing is far easier with a gun, but the same principle applies generally. Cops cannot afford to "leave the extreme cases," because, however uncommon and unlikely in a particular instance, they do exist, so a cop who disregards them puts his life at risk, especially patrolmen without partners.
So I may not blame the US cops for the "better safe than sorry" attitude, but the bossy image they have is not easily excused anyway.

That is pretty much my view of it: Like I say, I am very ambivalent, because I appreciate the priority they MUST place on caution, but know too well that many cops act aggressively rather than cautiously, which is never excusable. Some cops think their badge and gun make them unaccountable gods, but that is a wholly separate issue from cops exercising due caution when approaching an uncertain encounter. I think part of the reason small town cops and rural sheriffs are more prone to aggression is that such behavior is unwelcome in big city police forces; sometimes it is the REASON former metropolitan officers find themselves writing speeding tickets to motorists in the middle of nowhere, and knowing that only makes them more bitter and vindictive.

You may recall me citing this notorious case a few times, but I cannot help thinking there was a reason Jimmy Fennell went to police academy in Dallas but wound up an officer in tiny towns like Giddings and Georgetown that lack the revenue for police academies of their own. Maybe that police academy graduated him because they were unaware of him telling a classmate that if a woman cheated on him he would strangle her with his belt to avoid leaving finger prints, but there were surely other red flags that encouraged places like Dallas and Houston to reject him. Georgetown, on the other hand, is the place where city police (twice) found the Williamson County sheriff drunk and urinating on the side of the road but simply picked him up and drove him home, so I can see why Fennell might be more acceptable there. However, even Georgetown was not willing to overlook him responding to a domestic disturbance call where he subsequently kidnapped a woman at gunpoint and sexually assualted her. Take away his gun, however, and he probably does the same thing with his baton, confident his badge will deflect any negative consequences (after all, it let him get away with murder.)

In general, I think it depends on your location and circumstances, and often on which law enforcement agency is involved. On one of our many road trips from WI to TX and back, moondog and I found ourselves in the foothills of the TN mountains around 3AM on a clear night, and took advantage of the opportunity for some stargazing at relatively high altitude away from light pollution. While we were parked beside the road a TN state trooper drove by and noticed two guys parked by the road in the middle of nowhere staring at the sky at 3AM, so he pulled over to ask why. He ran our ID through the computer, saw we were not behaving erratically, then told us to have a nice night and drove off to catch criminals.

Had it been a rural county sheriff or small town peace officer things it might have gone more like the night when my parents were driving home from Houston at 3AM and a cop turned on his flashing lights as he pulled onto the highway, then wrote my father a ticket for failing to dim his lights to oncoming traffic (i.e. the cop.) My father had not received a ticket for about 20 years, which the TX Dept. of Public Safety rewarded by MAILING him renewed licenses without even the need to come in and retake the eyetest. The cop responded to that by informing him "that's not a license" to which my father replied, "well, it's what DPS gave me." Since we were in a rental, the cop then demanded the rental companys phone number so he could call and verify the car was not stolen. At 3AM. On Saturday night. In the end, my father was cited for failing to dim his lights (carrying a fine of nearly $200 in the late eighties, which was still the second least expensive citation they had) and my mother and I drive an alternate route between Houston and Austin to this very day; they got their pound of flesh, and it is the last they will ever see from us.

Whether US cops are aggressive depends on the police force and circumstances; most of them match courtesy with courtesy, but the farther you get from the cities the less oversight they get, and the more incestuous their relationship with it becomes. That opens the door for bad apples, but the inherent danger of law enforcement in a nation of 310 million is always present. Say there is a one in a million chance of running into the axe-wielding Hells Angel: That means there are 310 of them roaming America at any given time, and they rarely slow to 20 mph for school zones, so the odds a cop pulls one over for speeding are greater than the odds of meeting one any other time. In places where a liquor store robbery is the crime of the century, a lot of cops have a more cavalier attitude; in places that average several dozen murders annually cops are less inclined to look for trouble. The one constant is that caution is advisable everywhere but, once again, it is critical to distinguish between a cop exercising due caution because he is entering an unknown situation in an inherently dangerous job versus a cop behaving with aggressive disregard because he thinks his office entitles him to do so.
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Re: Wait, in Europe they leave soap on dishes to dry? - 09/11/2011 02:52:14 AM 2242 Views
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Once again, that isn't what they were talking about - 08/11/2011 01:29:19 PM 1801 Views
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I know you travel quite frequently, but I'll refer you to Paul's comment above re: New York. *NM* - 08/11/2011 02:10:36 PM 1082 Views
I spent 1990-1999 in the South, you know. *NM* - 08/11/2011 02:46:19 PM 934 Views
I knew you'd gotten around. - 08/11/2011 03:06:20 PM 1774 Views
I would call one to two checks a week pretty rare - 08/11/2011 06:28:59 PM 1618 Views
Which is still more often than places that never use them. - 08/11/2011 06:58:30 PM 1776 Views
Oops. This is Jen. Don't start attacking! Eep. *NM* - 08/11/2011 06:59:09 PM 993 Views
yes *NM* - 08/11/2011 08:12:45 PM 871 Views
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I guess it is all relative - 09/11/2011 06:27:17 PM 1533 Views
It still depends on where you are. Like she said... - 08/11/2011 02:02:09 PM 1773 Views
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so paper checks are history in ??? - 08/11/2011 10:51:01 PM 1526 Views
Belgium. *NM* - 08/11/2011 11:13:22 PM 958 Views
That is part of France right? - 09/11/2011 06:24:24 PM 1468 Views
They wish. *NM* - 09/11/2011 08:01:22 PM 1040 Views
that is true - 08/11/2011 06:27:13 PM 1466 Views
Rent checks. Utility checks. *NM* - 07/11/2011 10:47:58 PM 1213 Views
Exactly - instead of automated bank transfers. *NM* - 07/11/2011 10:50:39 PM 923 Views
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What's weirdest about British rent... - 08/11/2011 09:48:43 PM 1744 Views
Well... - 08/11/2011 09:53:56 PM 1578 Views
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That wasn't what they were talking about on that website. - 08/11/2011 01:28:28 PM 1684 Views
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- 07/11/2011 09:52:48 PM 1586 Views
Like Button. *NM* - 10/11/2011 11:29:12 PM 979 Views
In my experience, if the store is open, you can buy it - 07/11/2011 09:33:22 PM 1569 Views
it depends on the state - 07/11/2011 11:16:40 PM 1533 Views
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The variety of the "blue laws" is a bit nuts. - 08/11/2011 02:39:55 PM 1734 Views
We can turn right on a red light too - 07/11/2011 09:48:38 PM 1786 Views
Really? I thought that was unique to the US. - 08/11/2011 12:34:14 PM 1868 Views
The French can do it too. - 08/11/2011 03:34:39 PM 1534 Views
The French are shameless; first they stole our national colors, now this. - 09/11/2011 01:19:47 PM 1770 Views
That's mostly Italy, France is not so bad. - 09/11/2011 08:02:51 PM 1609 Views
That makes sense, but I have heard horrible tales about French farmers in trucks. - 09/11/2011 10:24:01 PM 1398 Views
Hm. Never noticed that. - 09/11/2011 10:31:23 PM 1514 Views
Sounds like you did, actually. - 11/11/2011 01:23:16 PM 1929 Views
Heh, I was so confused by this when I moved to western NY. - 08/11/2011 03:59:43 PM 1656 Views
Ah, yes, good point. - 09/11/2011 01:24:03 PM 1569 Views
Cops - 08/11/2011 06:31:08 PM 1524 Views
It is important to distinguish between cautious and combative attitudes. - 09/11/2011 02:24:43 PM 1768 Views
If there's a green right-turn filter light, then you aren't turning right on a red at all . *NM* - 08/11/2011 03:33:36 PM 971 Views
It's not a light. It's a sign of a green arrow - 08/11/2011 03:47:22 PM 1590 Views
But it's a light that goes on and off. - 08/11/2011 06:02:48 PM 1557 Views
Yes, a permanent sign. - 08/11/2011 06:18:26 PM 1528 Views
For me, the strangest thing is the phrase "could care less" - 07/11/2011 10:43:54 PM 1643 Views
In fairness... - 07/11/2011 10:50:13 PM 1846 Views
It's true. - 07/11/2011 11:06:42 PM 1524 Views
Exactly - 07/11/2011 11:08:53 PM 1642 Views
I've had one person get angry, and another thank me. - 08/11/2011 01:01:05 AM 1622 Views
Well, - 08/11/2011 04:43:31 AM 1638 Views
I think that's just a case of it being said too quickly and slurred too much - 08/11/2011 02:14:14 AM 1605 Views
that is really what stood out to you the most going from Australia to the US? - 08/11/2011 04:45:21 PM 1505 Views
It didn't stand out the most, I said it was the strangest thing - 08/11/2011 10:33:48 PM 1636 Views
you have a good point I guess - 09/11/2011 06:31:41 PM 1397 Views
It's "couldn't care less" in America, or at least it is in the part where I live. *NM* - 08/11/2011 06:01:50 PM 838 Views
It's couldn't care less everywhere- some people just say it incorrectly. *NM* - 08/11/2011 06:09:08 PM 967 Views
*NM* - 08/11/2011 06:26:54 PM 1008 Views
Interesting about the flag. - 08/11/2011 04:16:12 AM 1561 Views
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I've heard stories. *NM* - 08/11/2011 10:51:03 PM 958 Views
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I've never seen them in Belgium - nor in France outside highway parkings, to be fair. - 09/11/2011 08:05:09 PM 1545 Views
OK now you are being redundant *NM* - 09/11/2011 11:47:52 PM 1018 Views
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That's half-true - 09/11/2011 02:09:48 AM 1550 Views
I think there was a Family Guy episode about this. - 09/11/2011 02:27:07 PM 1630 Views
Re: I think there was a Family Guy episode about this. - 09/11/2011 02:33:18 PM 1704 Views
Ah, that makes a difference. - 09/11/2011 03:05:44 PM 1544 Views
You would find it much different at Gruene Hall - 09/11/2011 11:46:53 PM 1415 Views
Perhaps; never been, nor am I likey to ever go. - 11/11/2011 01:00:13 PM 2097 Views

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