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Yeah I don't normally assume NY as a baseline Isaac Send a noteboard - 23/02/2012 06:41:37 PM
Which might be a bit silly since I've spend a lot of time in Buffalo, but I don't tend to buy much there I'd have occasion to stare at the receipt for.

Aeryn is forgetting that the NY State and City taxes allow for a high standard deduction that would offset the tax rates such that the effective rate for someone making only $15,000 would be at or near 0%. In fact, someone making only $15,000 would probably be getting an EITC to supplement that income, rather than paying tax at any level.

However, in New York state, sales tax is on EVERYTHING - clothes, food, you name it. This is why cost-conscious people often go to New Jersey, where clothes are not subject to sales tax. And it is high, so there is a tax on consumption that they have to pay.

Of course, that doesn't help the Federal government at all, it just helps the state pay for the overpaid transit workers and teachers in rubber rooms that they can't fire due to union contracts.


In any event, I am going to guess here that EITC in NY is probably compensating for a lot of that, and any state that voted for Dukakis can be safely assumed, I think, to have local taxation that is at least as progressive as the country as a whole, in terms of state averages. The point stands, conceptually anyway, I don't think anyone grossing 15k in NY pays that amount of taxes without receiving most or more back directly.
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This message last edited by Isaac on 23/02/2012 at 06:43:43 PM
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Why Joel is CRAZY - Nearly Half of All Americans Don't Pay Federal Income Taxes Anonymous2000 - 23/02/2012 04:43:15 AM 1752 Views
A not so hypothetical situation... wooly - 23/02/2012 05:46:44 AM 1157 Views
Your paying more money now than then. Lower rate but more money *NM* Urza - 23/02/2012 07:52:51 AM 683 Views
Accurate statement, but not a justification *NM* wooly - 23/02/2012 03:44:55 PM 574 Views
Re: A not so hypothetical situation... Macharius - 23/02/2012 02:39:43 PM 1272 Views
I don't know much about that. wooly - 23/02/2012 03:53:27 PM 1070 Views
Why the heck do you think the current tax system is skewed to the rich? Anonymous2000 - 23/02/2012 03:18:43 PM 1291 Views
That's a fair question wooly - 23/02/2012 03:52:08 PM 1176 Views
Once again, poor people have no money with which to pay taxes. Joel - 23/02/2012 06:23:07 AM 1313 Views
50% of America is not "poor" or too poor to pay federal income taxes..... Anonymous2000 - 23/02/2012 01:01:24 PM 1208 Views
It clearly is, if they're not paying taxes. Macharius - 23/02/2012 02:32:54 PM 1189 Views
Regarding the mortgage deduction..... Anonymous2000 - 23/02/2012 03:20:37 PM 1277 Views
You base that statement on what, exactly? Fervent desire that it be true? Joel - 25/02/2012 12:43:30 AM 1713 Views
2009 (the year cited for this claim) was an outlier because of temporary tax cuts and the economy. Dreaded Anomaly - 25/02/2012 01:14:01 AM 1493 Views
Interesting, but lacking the data I consider critical; FICA etc. should not be counted, IMHO. Joel - 25/02/2012 02:10:45 AM 1349 Views
It's a phrasing thing, permits more bullshit Isaac - 25/02/2012 04:41:06 AM 1308 Views
Maybe I am just playing the same game,but I find stats from "the other side" compelling in some ways Joel - 25/02/2012 10:36:40 AM 1780 Views
Well they are compelling in some ways, but they got you again Isaac - 25/02/2012 05:21:34 PM 1202 Views
They both used AGI, so there has to be something else missing. Joel - 27/02/2012 10:07:58 AM 1180 Views
You're operating under the same fallacy he does - that people should pay income taxes. Cannoli - 23/02/2012 12:05:52 PM 1361 Views
In much the same way Jacob - 23/02/2012 01:40:58 PM 1320 Views
Same argument re: fallacies Cannoli - 24/02/2012 02:52:17 PM 1159 Views
Was meant as a joke reply Jacob - 02/03/2012 06:30:15 PM 1465 Views
Joel is crazy, but I highly doubt that this is "why" Tom - 23/02/2012 01:36:37 PM 1348 Views
HA! HA! Very well played! *NM* Anonymous2000 - 23/02/2012 03:49:35 PM 526 Views
I see your point, but not how it changes much in the conversation where we discussed that Joel - 25/02/2012 01:49:29 AM 1149 Views
Joel, get your head out of your ass, if that is possible Tom - 25/02/2012 07:02:34 PM 1197 Views
You kiss your momma with that ad hominem? Joel - 27/02/2012 09:11:33 AM 1373 Views
You mention this statistic all the time. Macharius - 23/02/2012 02:16:47 PM 1040 Views
Obviously, we are talking about the bottom 50%..... Anonymous2000 - 23/02/2012 03:22:43 PM 1051 Views
How do you account for retired folks? Macharius - 23/02/2012 04:18:59 PM 1278 Views
social security isn't taxable either *NM* Jim - 24/02/2012 04:21:21 AM 600 Views
Easy... he doesn't. Dannymac - 25/02/2012 02:56:05 AM 1013 Views
I wonder how much of that statistic is students LadyLorraine - 23/02/2012 02:22:58 PM 1296 Views
The number "paying taxes" should include dependents of those paying Floffe - 23/02/2012 02:39:21 PM 1262 Views
yah I read the link, but apparently I just didn't understand their explanation. LadyLorraine - 23/02/2012 05:40:54 PM 1074 Views
Federal taxes Aeryn - 23/02/2012 04:18:22 PM 1168 Views
Your figures are fairly unrealistic Isaac - 23/02/2012 04:54:44 PM 1363 Views
Not entirely. Tom - 23/02/2012 06:30:18 PM 1110 Views
Yeah I don't normally assume NY as a baseline Isaac - 23/02/2012 06:41:37 PM 1180 Views
It probably isn't. We even tax delivery fees, gardening services and other things with sales tax. Tom - 25/02/2012 07:03:46 PM 1162 Views
We don't tax transport of property either Isaac - 25/02/2012 08:16:53 PM 1191 Views
Places usually get around it with free delivery. A tax on a $0 item is still $0. *NM* Tom - 25/02/2012 09:12:22 PM 556 Views
On exempting SS income: Joel - 25/02/2012 02:30:43 AM 1115 Views
Is there any reason why one should exclude the other? Legolas - 23/02/2012 07:32:09 PM 1184 Views
Income taxes are not the only kind of taxes. 86% of Americans pay payroll or income tax. Dreaded Anomaly - 23/02/2012 09:51:50 PM 1289 Views
And give the riff raff a reason to become involved in politics? Are you daft? *NM* Vodalus - 24/02/2012 05:04:51 AM 717 Views
25% of america is under 18, that means ~25% of the rest are not working or paid very little moondog - 25/02/2012 08:17:52 PM 1305 Views
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