To be honest, I think people MIGHT be overreacting to both comments.
Joel Send a noteboard - 23/08/2012 01:33:54 AM
So.
George Galloway, British left wing politician and general arse -
The Respect MP then suggested one of the women had claimed she invited Mr Assange back to her flat, had consensual sex with him and then "woke up to him having sex with her again - something which can happen, you know".
"Some people believe that when you go to bed with somebody, take off your clothes, and have sex with them and then fall asleep, you're already in the sex game with them," he continued.
"It might be really bad manners not to have tapped her on the shoulder and said, 'do you mind if I do it again?'
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"It might be really sordid and bad sexual etiquette, but whatever else it is, it is not rape or you bankrupt the term rape of all meaning."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/9490122/George-Galloway-Julian-Assange-rape-allegations-nothing-but-bad-sexual-etiquette.html
Is there a point at which consent is assumed to have elapsed then, or does the woman (or man) have to formerly state it?
Todd Atkin, American right wing politician -
"Well you know, people always want to try to make that as one of those things, well how do you, how do you slice this particularly tough sort of ethical question. First of all, from what I understand from doctors, that’s really rare. If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down. But let’s assume that maybe that didn’t work or something. I think there should be some punishment, but the punishment ought to be on the rapist and not attacking the child"
http://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2012/08/19/republican-senate-nominee-todd-akin-victims-of-legitimate-rape-dont-get-pregnant/
(some context on Atkin's use of "legitimate rape" might be that previously he only supported abortion in the case of "forcible rape", in a bill co-authored with Ryan)
Hard to know which one is stupider... though the bright side for Galloway is that it might be better to be remembered as the guy who made the stupid comment about rape rather than the one who sucked up to Saddam. Maybe.
George Galloway, British left wing politician and general arse -
The Respect MP then suggested one of the women had claimed she invited Mr Assange back to her flat, had consensual sex with him and then "woke up to him having sex with her again - something which can happen, you know".
"Some people believe that when you go to bed with somebody, take off your clothes, and have sex with them and then fall asleep, you're already in the sex game with them," he continued.
"It might be really bad manners not to have tapped her on the shoulder and said, 'do you mind if I do it again?'
Related Articles
"It might be really sordid and bad sexual etiquette, but whatever else it is, it is not rape or you bankrupt the term rape of all meaning."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/9490122/George-Galloway-Julian-Assange-rape-allegations-nothing-but-bad-sexual-etiquette.html
Is there a point at which consent is assumed to have elapsed then, or does the woman (or man) have to formerly state it?
Todd Atkin, American right wing politician -
"Well you know, people always want to try to make that as one of those things, well how do you, how do you slice this particularly tough sort of ethical question. First of all, from what I understand from doctors, that’s really rare. If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down. But let’s assume that maybe that didn’t work or something. I think there should be some punishment, but the punishment ought to be on the rapist and not attacking the child"
http://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddisalvo/2012/08/19/republican-senate-nominee-todd-akin-victims-of-legitimate-rape-dont-get-pregnant/
(some context on Atkin's use of "legitimate rape" might be that previously he only supported abortion in the case of "forcible rape", in a bill co-authored with Ryan)
Hard to know which one is stupider... though the bright side for Galloway is that it might be better to be remembered as the guy who made the stupid comment about rape rather than the one who sucked up to Saddam. Maybe.
I know people who have been quite appreciative of waking up to sex with someone a few hours after consensual sex. Of course, refusing sex is just that, regardless of what happened previously, but only those present can be certain whether such refusal occurred.
Akins comment would benefit from more context, particularly given the existing context of abortion bans that allow no rape exception. Sex with anyone who does not or cannot consent is obviously rape. On the other hand, men and women alike joke about beer-goggling, but men never cry, "rape!" on waking up next to someone they would never be seen with sober. They also do not explain pregnancy as rape to avoid the fear/embarrassment of telling their parents they are sexually active. Men do not seek abortions by claiming consensual sex was rape they feared to report. As with any crime, accusations are not proof, and proof can be difficult to obtain even when crimes occur.
Ultimately, the frequent difficulty of establishing rape to be just that is just one more reason goverment should not usurp control over peoples bodies.
I do find it interesting, given the other serious charges flying both ways this year, that Akins ambiguous comment may be what costs the GOP a Senate majority.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
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Slightly better than chocolate.
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LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Rape - British left wing politician takes on American right wing politician in stupidest comment off
- 22/08/2012 11:03:50 PM
1054 Views
Galloway - I'll always remember him for being a Cat to be honest.
- 22/08/2012 11:14:58 PM
625 Views
That is second on my list of things I remember about him, probably down to third now.
- 22/08/2012 11:21:17 PM
546 Views
People who support abortion only for rape are the most retarded in the whole debate
- 23/08/2012 01:05:17 AM
595 Views
Bullshit
- 23/08/2012 05:01:24 AM
500 Views
That's an interesting variation with some legitimacy, though not compelling, to me anyway
- 23/08/2012 07:25:50 AM
518 Views
That is a dangerous line of logic.
- 23/08/2012 09:26:25 PM
750 Views
Okay, that really wasn't connected to my comments
- 24/08/2012 02:39:21 AM
452 Views
Sure it was, but we can do it your way.
- 24/08/2012 04:10:37 AM
521 Views
Yet you don't, you jump the gun here too
- 24/08/2012 04:37:02 AM
536 Views
I was trying to cut to the chase; like I say, I followed your logic: I just disliked where it led.
- 24/08/2012 06:10:40 AM
617 Views
Disliking the conclusion doesn't invalidate the logic, and stop veering out of the debate boundary
- 24/08/2012 06:43:43 AM
569 Views
No, the logics invalidity does that, though you do not seem to like its conclusion either.
- 24/08/2012 07:48:21 AM
731 Views
I'm not even sure what that means
- 25/08/2012 12:38:56 AM
462 Views
The logic is invalid because invalid, however either of us feels about where it leads.
- 25/08/2012 10:37:34 PM
524 Views
Okay, we're done here
- 26/08/2012 05:36:28 AM
494 Views
Quotes are not my opinion.
- 26/08/2012 06:37:19 AM
468 Views
You'd really benefit from post-secondary education.
- 26/08/2012 12:14:02 PM
557 Views
Further post-secondary education, you mean; probably so, though not for the reasons you stated.
- 26/08/2012 08:20:45 PM
513 Views
Haven't you and Joel had about the same amount of post-secondary education, actually?
- 27/08/2012 01:31:43 AM
585 Views
It has nothing to do with consequences or responsibility. It's about life & privacy. Period
- 23/08/2012 12:04:55 PM
620 Views
To be honest, I think people MIGHT be overreacting to both comments.
- 23/08/2012 01:33:54 AM
578 Views
Really? *NM*
- 23/08/2012 06:33:46 AM
329 Views
Yeah.
- 23/08/2012 06:40:05 AM
525 Views
I expect it is more of a "stating the obvious" response.
- 23/08/2012 02:01:18 PM
519 Views
Heh, I didn't think so.
- 23/08/2012 05:44:55 PM
563 Views
I said Akins comments needed MORE context.
- 23/08/2012 08:50:09 PM
653 Views
Yes, I saw that.
- 23/08/2012 10:28:50 PM
473 Views
Re: Yes, I saw that.
- 23/08/2012 11:04:40 PM
501 Views
Re: Yes, I saw that.
- 23/08/2012 11:08:46 PM
477 Views
Science sometimes produces shocking discoveries.
- 23/08/2012 11:28:47 PM
502 Views
And sometimes one doctor with an agenda pulls "facts" out of the air
- 23/08/2012 11:37:37 PM
545 Views
This
- 23/08/2012 08:50:43 PM
549 Views
Eh
- 23/08/2012 10:37:15 PM
494 Views
I read it the same way Jen did
- 23/08/2012 08:49:16 PM
461 Views
Why?
- 23/08/2012 08:51:59 PM
539 Views
See your reply here - the bit before the comma then the bit after it.
- 23/08/2012 09:06:20 PM
527 Views
You can see where there's room for doubt in that though, surely.
- 23/08/2012 09:20:19 PM
502 Views
I accept there are exceptions under some circumstances - but they are exceptions, not the rule.
- 23/08/2012 09:44:36 PM
513 Views
Well, I have to clarify...
- 23/08/2012 10:28:13 PM
487 Views
Re: Well, I have to clarify...
- 23/08/2012 10:50:59 PM
454 Views
Re: Well, I have to clarify...
- 23/08/2012 11:15:50 PM
458 Views
Re: Well, I have to clarify...
- 23/08/2012 11:28:56 PM
557 Views
couple things
- 24/08/2012 01:57:04 AM
465 Views
Re: couple things
- 24/08/2012 02:26:23 PM
498 Views
You may be talking about Galloway and not Assange, but Galloway was talking about Assange.
- 24/08/2012 06:28:00 PM
472 Views
I can
- 23/08/2012 11:05:05 PM
434 Views
OK
- 23/08/2012 09:35:35 PM
477 Views
Bullshit.
- 23/08/2012 10:00:54 PM
446 Views
Re: Bullshit.
- 23/08/2012 10:52:02 PM
638 Views
I don't know about Galloway but Akin is being made to pay for his commnets
- 23/08/2012 04:37:12 PM
554 Views
Um, I'm not sure about that last bit
- 23/08/2012 10:43:15 PM
474 Views
this issue has been discussed none stop for two days and this almost never mentioned
- 24/08/2012 12:28:25 PM
472 Views
Yeah, I'm curious about that last point as well.
- 24/08/2012 02:53:43 AM
526 Views
McCaskills campaign ran ads during the GOP primary calling Akin the "most conservative" candidate.
- 24/08/2012 03:33:18 AM
673 Views
Interesting.
- 24/08/2012 04:49:51 AM
463 Views
Yeah, that about covers it; personally, I am developing a grudging respect for Akin.
- 24/08/2012 06:30:43 AM
519 Views
no it isn't kinda true
- 24/08/2012 12:50:53 PM
443 Views
The MO GOP voters who nominated him for being "most conservative" think it is.
- 25/08/2012 10:52:02 PM
477 Views