Active Users:385 Time:01/07/2025 05:50:31 PM
I have gotten used to you being right for the wrong reasons. Joel Send a noteboard - 23/08/2012 07:42:32 PM
Ultimately, the frequent difficulty of establishing rape
I go into this a bit in my reply to Roland00.
to be just that is just one more reason goverment should not usurp control over peoples bodies.
I'd phrase more as "the frequent difficulty of establishing rape is one more reason government should not be granting exceptions to take a human life." I suppose it all comes down to the life vs privacy issue. From the standpoint of human life, the complications of demonstrating rape is a good reason not to start making excuses for taking life for convenience (which is all that abortion ever is).

It does not come down to life vs. privacy until/unless we establish a life (other than the womans) is involved. No one claims killing babies is OK, that womens lives simply take precedence over their childrens. It comes down to life vs. possible life, a decision that should not be made by anyone not facing its consequences.

What I can't get is the seeming disconnect in some people's minds between the authority of the government over people's bodies and the provisions they are supposed to offer for the same. How can someone say "my body, my choice" and at the same time support the government funding repairs or improvements to that same body? The excuse for the government takeover of GM was that since the government was bailing them out, the government had a right to ensure their money was spent properly. The natural extension of this logic is where the "death panels" came up, despite the disingenuous claims of Obama's supporters that there was no such wording or explicit provision in the bill or for that matter, any serious proposal for government-provided medical treatment funds. The fact is, funding life or death treatments ultimately gives the government authority over the receipt of those treatments, and thus the power over life and death.

The only viable choices are ceding the government control over your body, having the government write everyone a blank check for any sort of medicine, care or treatment they wish, or removing the government from all involvement with "life" except the elementary function of protecting people from assult, abuse and murder at one another's hands.

Denying coverage for life-extending treatment of terminal conditions does not prevent it, only prevent its guarantee. Government allows both that treatment and abortion, but funds neither. What is disingenuous is conservatives attacking Robomacare for not covering life-extending terminal care when they do not want it covering ANYTHING (especially since the whole thing was their idea.) It is also disingenuous when conservatives demand government protect fetal life that may be human beings BUT do nothing to protect that life post-natally, when it is undeniably a human being. It is unsurprisingly like the Heritage Foundations healthcare mandate: Government requires everyone have what it does nothing to ensure anyone can maintain, whether that be personal healthcare or a childs life.

I do find it interesting, given the other serious charges flying both ways this year, that Akins ambiguous comment may be what costs the GOP a Senate majority.
It serves them right, because from a consitutional perspective, this is not remotely the concern of a Representative or a Senator. At most, you might say it's an issue because the Senate approves SCotUS appointees, but it is not properly a SCotUS issue either. The real position (and the official position of the GOP prior to the neocon mentality gaining prominence) should be that abortion is a state by state issue, and barring a Constitutional Amendment one way or another, completely beyond consideration of the federal government.

From a constitutional perspective, civil rights is not a state matter; we tried that and, in addition to being immoral, it ended in Americas bloodiest war, followed by a century of Jim Crow. I agree they deserve it though; the GOP platform calls for a federal abortion ban, no exceptions, so all the party outrage over Akins comments is about him publicly admitting the official party position the rest of the GOP is desperately trying to conceal from the rest of the country.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.

Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Reply to message
Rape - British left wing politician takes on American right wing politician in stupidest comment off - 22/08/2012 11:03:50 PM 1054 Views
Galloway - I'll always remember him for being a Cat to be honest. - 22/08/2012 11:14:58 PM 625 Views
Erm... what on earth is that? - 22/08/2012 11:19:13 PM 448 Views
Celebrity Big Brother in the UK - 22/08/2012 11:22:17 PM 495 Views
People who support abortion only for rape are the most retarded in the whole debate - 23/08/2012 01:05:17 AM 596 Views
Bullshit - 23/08/2012 05:01:24 AM 502 Views
That's an interesting variation with some legitimacy, though not compelling, to me anyway - 23/08/2012 07:25:50 AM 519 Views
That is a dangerous line of logic. - 23/08/2012 09:26:25 PM 752 Views
Okay, that really wasn't connected to my comments - 24/08/2012 02:39:21 AM 452 Views
Sure it was, but we can do it your way. - 24/08/2012 04:10:37 AM 521 Views
Yet you don't, you jump the gun here too - 24/08/2012 04:37:02 AM 536 Views
I was trying to cut to the chase; like I say, I followed your logic: I just disliked where it led. - 24/08/2012 06:10:40 AM 617 Views
Disliking the conclusion doesn't invalidate the logic, and stop veering out of the debate boundary - 24/08/2012 06:43:43 AM 570 Views
No, the logics invalidity does that, though you do not seem to like its conclusion either. - 24/08/2012 07:48:21 AM 731 Views
I'm not even sure what that means - 25/08/2012 12:38:56 AM 462 Views
The logic is invalid because invalid, however either of us feels about where it leads. - 25/08/2012 10:37:34 PM 525 Views
Okay, we're done here - 26/08/2012 05:36:28 AM 495 Views
Quotes are not my opinion. - 26/08/2012 06:37:19 AM 468 Views
You'd really benefit from post-secondary education. - 26/08/2012 12:14:02 PM 558 Views
Haven't you and Joel had about the same amount of post-secondary education, actually? - 27/08/2012 01:31:43 AM 587 Views
T^T - 27/08/2012 04:39:33 AM 511 Views
Is that the emoticon for perky titties? *NM* - 27/08/2012 11:07:06 PM 250 Views
He is an absolute berk. *NM* - 23/08/2012 01:08:58 AM 453 Views
To be honest, I think people MIGHT be overreacting to both comments. - 23/08/2012 01:33:54 AM 578 Views
Really? *NM* - 23/08/2012 06:33:46 AM 329 Views
Yeah. - 23/08/2012 06:40:05 AM 527 Views
I expect it is more of a "stating the obvious" response. - 23/08/2012 02:01:18 PM 520 Views
Heh, I didn't think so. - 23/08/2012 05:44:55 PM 564 Views
I said Akins comments needed MORE context. - 23/08/2012 08:50:09 PM 655 Views
Yes, I saw that. - 23/08/2012 10:28:50 PM 475 Views
Re: Yes, I saw that. - 23/08/2012 11:04:40 PM 501 Views
Re: Yes, I saw that. - 23/08/2012 11:08:46 PM 478 Views
Science sometimes produces shocking discoveries. - 23/08/2012 11:28:47 PM 502 Views
And sometimes one doctor with an agenda pulls "facts" out of the air - 23/08/2012 11:37:37 PM 546 Views
No argument there. - 23/08/2012 11:46:01 PM 535 Views
This - 23/08/2012 08:50:43 PM 549 Views
Okay. I misunderstood. Sorry. *NM* - 23/08/2012 09:58:20 PM 299 Views
Eh - 23/08/2012 10:37:15 PM 494 Views
Well, I didn't take it that way. - 23/08/2012 10:42:01 PM 564 Views
Good - 24/08/2012 02:20:27 AM 562 Views
Ah, I can understand if that is the case. - 23/08/2012 07:46:38 PM 526 Views
I read it the same way Jen did - 23/08/2012 08:49:16 PM 461 Views
Why? - 23/08/2012 08:51:59 PM 540 Views
See your reply here - the bit before the comma then the bit after it. - 23/08/2012 09:06:20 PM 528 Views
You can see where there's room for doubt in that though, surely. - 23/08/2012 09:20:19 PM 503 Views
I accept there are exceptions under some circumstances - but they are exceptions, not the rule. - 23/08/2012 09:44:36 PM 513 Views
Well, I have to clarify... - 23/08/2012 10:28:13 PM 487 Views
Re: Well, I have to clarify... - 23/08/2012 10:50:59 PM 454 Views
Re: Well, I have to clarify... - 23/08/2012 11:15:50 PM 458 Views
Re: Well, I have to clarify... - 23/08/2012 11:28:56 PM 558 Views
couple things - 24/08/2012 01:57:04 AM 465 Views
Re: couple things - 24/08/2012 02:26:23 PM 498 Views
Re: couple things - 24/08/2012 02:45:38 PM 446 Views
Re: couple things - 25/08/2012 12:11:03 AM 491 Views
You may be talking about Galloway and not Assange, but Galloway was talking about Assange. - 24/08/2012 06:28:00 PM 473 Views
Ew. - 24/08/2012 06:56:27 PM 510 Views
Yes, that about covers it. - 24/08/2012 07:42:13 PM 480 Views
Yes, I was talking about Galoway and what he said - 25/08/2012 12:15:15 AM 617 Views
Re: Well, I have to clarify... - 23/08/2012 11:34:51 PM 546 Views
I can - 23/08/2012 11:05:05 PM 434 Views
I gotta say I am with Paul - 24/08/2012 12:27:44 AM 533 Views
Hm. - 24/08/2012 02:08:33 AM 450 Views
OK - 23/08/2012 09:35:35 PM 477 Views
Bullshit. - 23/08/2012 10:00:54 PM 446 Views
Re: Bullshit. - 23/08/2012 10:52:02 PM 638 Views
To start again then Joel - 23/08/2012 11:14:07 PM 462 Views
My mistake then, sorry. - 23/08/2012 11:32:34 PM 499 Views
Agreeing without agreeing. - 23/08/2012 12:24:10 PM 561 Views
I have gotten used to you being right for the wrong reasons. - 23/08/2012 07:42:32 PM 472 Views
Yes - 23/08/2012 06:34:38 AM 629 Views
Indeed - 23/08/2012 08:47:40 PM 456 Views
I don't know about Galloway but Akin is being made to pay for his commnets - 23/08/2012 04:37:12 PM 556 Views
Um, I'm not sure about that last bit - 23/08/2012 10:43:15 PM 475 Views
this issue has been discussed none stop for two days and this almost never mentioned - 24/08/2012 12:28:25 PM 473 Views
well, that is where I'm confused. - 24/08/2012 07:03:16 PM 501 Views
Maybe I watch to much CNN - 24/08/2012 07:30:23 PM 450 Views
Yeah, I'm curious about that last point as well. - 24/08/2012 02:53:43 AM 527 Views
McCaskills campaign ran ads during the GOP primary calling Akin the "most conservative" candidate. - 24/08/2012 03:33:18 AM 673 Views
Interesting. - 24/08/2012 04:49:51 AM 464 Views
no it isn't kinda true - 24/08/2012 12:50:53 PM 443 Views

Reply to Message