If this kind of thing happens in an established long-term relationship, I think we can all agree that, while many people may still find it a dubious thing to do, calling it rape is absurd.
But I have been trying to decide how I feel about this. I think I would feel extremely yucky if I woke up and my SO were going to town. That person wouldn't be needing me, just a ... uh, orifice. Ew. And I can't see that I'd prosecute my SO, but I am actually pretty sure I'd be shitty about it for quite a while, and that's making me wonder if the real definition shouldn't be rape. I kinda don't want it to be, but the comparison to the blow up doll isn't far off.
Of course this was not a long-term relationship, or even a relationship at all, just a one night stand. But that one night stand having happened does create a certain grey area - it makes some things natural enough that would've been creepy or downright sexual harassment if he'd done them to someone he had no sexual relationship of any kind with. I think just about every sane person would agree that actually having sex with her while she was asleep goes far beyond the level of increased familiarity which their prior consensual sex made justifiable - but it's hard to draw clear lines in that.
You are definitely right that it's hard to draw clear lines; I know what I think, but I can see how someone could have been confused. Especially if sleepy.
...even though, as always, your post is thoughtful enough not to sound judgmental.
But yes, there are Ifs and stuff. Most of them have been mentioned by now.
Just this: I know a girl whose fantasy it was to be woken by actual sex, not foreplay. By definition that could never actually be consensual in the beginning (because she is asleep). It would also most likely happen with a person she spent the night with in the first place and that person could probably assume she was up for it again in the morning. Or maybe not, and a short "Stop it!" would already end the whole affair. I hope you can see the two points I am getting at: People are into the weirdest stuff and it's hard to judge such situations from the outside. That's the judges job, not mine, thankfully.
I am not saying this couldn't possibly have been rape, like this politician. Maybe it was. Or maybe her story isn't the whole truth. From what I gathered she seemed very fond of Assange the night before. In the end there are only two people who know if this was rape or not. I would not dare to cast stones at either one of them from over here.
*MySmiley*
You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling.
You mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling.
Rape - British left wing politician takes on American right wing politician in stupidest comment off
22/08/2012 11:03:50 PM
- 1080 Views
Galloway - I'll always remember him for being a Cat to be honest.
22/08/2012 11:14:58 PM
- 650 Views
That is second on my list of things I remember about him, probably down to third now.
22/08/2012 11:21:17 PM
- 570 Views
People who support abortion only for rape are the most retarded in the whole debate
23/08/2012 01:05:17 AM
- 618 Views
Bullshit
23/08/2012 05:01:24 AM
- 522 Views
That's an interesting variation with some legitimacy, though not compelling, to me anyway
23/08/2012 07:25:50 AM
- 545 Views
That is a dangerous line of logic.
23/08/2012 09:26:25 PM
- 786 Views
Okay, that really wasn't connected to my comments
24/08/2012 02:39:21 AM
- 479 Views
Sure it was, but we can do it your way.
24/08/2012 04:10:37 AM
- 545 Views
Yet you don't, you jump the gun here too
24/08/2012 04:37:02 AM
- 557 Views
I was trying to cut to the chase; like I say, I followed your logic: I just disliked where it led.
24/08/2012 06:10:40 AM
- 637 Views
Disliking the conclusion doesn't invalidate the logic, and stop veering out of the debate boundary
24/08/2012 06:43:43 AM
- 590 Views
No, the logics invalidity does that, though you do not seem to like its conclusion either.
24/08/2012 07:48:21 AM
- 761 Views
I'm not even sure what that means
25/08/2012 12:38:56 AM
- 483 Views
The logic is invalid because invalid, however either of us feels about where it leads.
25/08/2012 10:37:34 PM
- 555 Views
Okay, we're done here
26/08/2012 05:36:28 AM
- 518 Views
Quotes are not my opinion.
26/08/2012 06:37:19 AM
- 491 Views
You'd really benefit from post-secondary education.
26/08/2012 12:14:02 PM
- 584 Views
Further post-secondary education, you mean; probably so, though not for the reasons you stated.
26/08/2012 08:20:45 PM
- 536 Views
Haven't you and Joel had about the same amount of post-secondary education, actually?
27/08/2012 01:31:43 AM
- 613 Views
It has nothing to do with consequences or responsibility. It's about life & privacy. Period
23/08/2012 12:04:55 PM
- 641 Views
To be honest, I think people MIGHT be overreacting to both comments.
23/08/2012 01:33:54 AM
- 606 Views
Really? *NM*
23/08/2012 06:33:46 AM
- 339 Views
Yeah.
23/08/2012 06:40:05 AM
- 547 Views
I expect it is more of a "stating the obvious" response.
23/08/2012 02:01:18 PM
- 541 Views
Heh, I didn't think so.
23/08/2012 05:44:55 PM
- 587 Views
I said Akins comments needed MORE context.
23/08/2012 08:50:09 PM
- 677 Views
Yes, I saw that.
23/08/2012 10:28:50 PM
- 493 Views
Re: Yes, I saw that.
23/08/2012 11:04:40 PM
- 522 Views
Re: Yes, I saw that.
23/08/2012 11:08:46 PM
- 498 Views
Science sometimes produces shocking discoveries.
23/08/2012 11:28:47 PM
- 527 Views
And sometimes one doctor with an agenda pulls "facts" out of the air
23/08/2012 11:37:37 PM
- 569 Views
This
23/08/2012 08:50:43 PM
- 574 Views
Eh
23/08/2012 10:37:15 PM
- 512 Views
I read it the same way Jen did
23/08/2012 08:49:16 PM
- 480 Views
Why?
23/08/2012 08:51:59 PM
- 561 Views
See your reply here - the bit before the comma then the bit after it.
23/08/2012 09:06:20 PM
- 554 Views
You can see where there's room for doubt in that though, surely.
23/08/2012 09:20:19 PM
- 522 Views
I accept there are exceptions under some circumstances - but they are exceptions, not the rule.
23/08/2012 09:44:36 PM
- 538 Views
Well, I have to clarify...
23/08/2012 10:28:13 PM
- 507 Views
Re: Well, I have to clarify...
23/08/2012 10:50:59 PM
- 473 Views
Re: Well, I have to clarify...
23/08/2012 11:15:50 PM
- 483 Views
Re: Well, I have to clarify...
23/08/2012 11:28:56 PM
- 581 Views
couple things
24/08/2012 01:57:04 AM
- 484 Views
Re: couple things
24/08/2012 02:26:23 PM
- 518 Views
You may be talking about Galloway and not Assange, but Galloway was talking about Assange.
24/08/2012 06:28:00 PM
- 496 Views
OK
23/08/2012 09:35:35 PM
- 500 Views
Bullshit.
23/08/2012 10:00:54 PM
- 467 Views
Re: Bullshit.
23/08/2012 10:52:02 PM
- 661 Views
I don't know about Galloway but Akin is being made to pay for his commnets
23/08/2012 04:37:12 PM
- 575 Views
Um, I'm not sure about that last bit
23/08/2012 10:43:15 PM
- 495 Views
this issue has been discussed none stop for two days and this almost never mentioned
24/08/2012 12:28:25 PM
- 496 Views
Yeah, I'm curious about that last point as well.
24/08/2012 02:53:43 AM
- 544 Views
McCaskills campaign ran ads during the GOP primary calling Akin the "most conservative" candidate.
24/08/2012 03:33:18 AM
- 701 Views
Interesting.
24/08/2012 04:49:51 AM
- 485 Views
Yeah, that about covers it; personally, I am developing a grudging respect for Akin.
24/08/2012 06:30:43 AM
- 544 Views
no it isn't kinda true
24/08/2012 12:50:53 PM
- 466 Views
The MO GOP voters who nominated him for being "most conservative" think it is.
25/08/2012 10:52:02 PM
- 503 Views