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There is a difference between the law of averages and the law of large numbers. heartbreak Send a noteboard - 05/10/2012 04:45:00 AM
"The law of averages is a lay term used to express a belief that outcomes of a random event will "even out" within a small sample."

"In probability theory, the law of large numbers (LLN) is a theorem that describes the result of performing the same experiment a large number of times."

Your analogy of the voltmeter readings to people being polled doesn't fit. With the voltmeter reading, there should be one answer, what the system is supposed to output at the point of measurement. Let's call it twelve volts. You're absolutely right that we will take a million measurements and by averaging them we will have a better idea of what the voltage is at the spot being measured and it will be closer to the expected value the more measurements we take. The problem with comparing this to people being polled is that there is not a right or expected answer. Obama is not the expected value and Romney the error or the other way around.

What the margin of error tells us is that if the same poll were run again with a different subset of the population then the results could vary by plus or minus the margin of error for each candidate. For example, if we run a poll, Candidate A gets 48 and Candidate B gets 52 and our margin of error is 4 it is very possible that if we conducted the poll again with a different subset of the population that our results could end up 50/50.

This is why when the difference between the two is within the margin of error, the result of one doing better than the other is insignificant.

As far as taking the results of multiple polls as indication that one candidate is doing better than the other despite the margin of error showing that the result is insignificant, this is where you and Joel are mistaking the law of averages for the law of large numbers.

In this case, the number of polls considered is a small data set.
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Romney CRUSHES Obama in First Debate - Leads Swing States by 4% - 04/10/2012 05:32:32 AM 1179 Views
So, is that from a "corrected", "non-skewed" poll? - 04/10/2012 05:51:58 AM 711 Views
Nope, I checked Betfair, the odds on Romney continue to drift - 04/10/2012 10:02:16 AM 781 Views
Wow, you suck at Googling! - 04/10/2012 01:14:22 PM 897 Views
No, you just apparently suck at math - 04/10/2012 07:17:20 PM 651 Views
I know you are sad, but your Messiah may still win.....you never know! - 04/10/2012 07:23:16 PM 720 Views
I'm more of a syndicalist, sorry - 04/10/2012 08:43:48 PM 745 Views
Ooh, would you mind talking more about syndicalism? - 04/10/2012 11:28:40 PM 656 Views
It really should be mandatory for everyone to read factcheck.org after every debate. *NM* - 04/10/2012 09:38:24 AM 401 Views
Seriously. The number of times I squinted and thought, "Wait, that doesn't sound quite right" - 04/10/2012 02:01:12 PM 782 Views
Romney addressed that head-on - 04/10/2012 02:13:44 PM 683 Views
Yeah, that "20 million" comment raised my eyebrows. - 04/10/2012 04:15:49 PM 1050 Views
Why are you not counting the elderly? - 04/10/2012 07:33:28 PM 958 Views
Obama - Lost and Bewildered without Teleprompter.....funny stuff! - 04/10/2012 01:10:40 PM 716 Views
A2000, your message should read: - 04/10/2012 03:42:18 PM 742 Views
I consider the margin of error implied. - 04/10/2012 05:49:50 PM 628 Views
Unfortunately statistics does not support that. - 04/10/2012 06:11:56 PM 749 Views
Of course they do; the law of averages supports that. - 04/10/2012 06:46:27 PM 780 Views
Poll numbers aren't random so even if the law of averages could be applied to a small data set... - 04/10/2012 07:05:49 PM 660 Views
that is why you can't base things on just one poll - 05/10/2012 01:27:18 AM 842 Views
You are making the same mistake Joel is making. You should read our discussion. *NM* - 05/10/2012 01:50:01 AM 474 Views
there is a difference between statistical errors and model or method errors - 05/10/2012 03:28:38 AM 727 Views
There is a difference between the law of averages and the law of large numbers. - 05/10/2012 04:45:00 AM 941 Views
can wait for Ryan vs Bozo the VP - 04/10/2012 06:07:30 PM 607 Views
+1 - that debate is going to be comical! - 04/10/2012 07:24:26 PM 711 Views
I would end up with alchohol posioning *NM* - 04/10/2012 10:16:51 PM 436 Views
If Biden performs as expected... - 04/10/2012 07:46:16 PM 748 Views
your take on obama's foreign policy debate performance does not seem like reality - 04/10/2012 08:00:51 PM 677 Views
I never would have thought Romney could lay such a beatdown on Obama as I saw last night. - 04/10/2012 08:55:46 PM 763 Views
we saw the anti-romney last night. i doubt obama is going to be so flat-footed against him next time - 04/10/2012 10:35:21 PM 688 Views
Hilarious. - 04/10/2012 11:20:32 PM 657 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 05/10/2012 12:27:33 AM 649 Views
Why can it not be both? - 05/10/2012 12:58:59 PM 789 Views
who would you consider our number one geopolitical foe? - 04/10/2012 10:12:53 PM 779 Views
China is far more dangerous. *NM* - 05/10/2012 07:23:06 AM 337 Views
Whoa, was not expecting that point of agreement. - 05/10/2012 12:35:35 PM 793 Views
I'm not frightened of them, but they're hardly an ally. *NM* - 05/10/2012 03:55:45 PM 431 Views
I am not frightened, but am concerned. - 06/10/2012 01:27:40 PM 776 Views
they may be more dangerous but that doesn't that doesn't automatically make them first - 05/10/2012 01:09:30 PM 769 Views
That's fair enough. *NM* - 05/10/2012 03:54:56 PM 377 Views
WOW - Even the liberal CNN Poll confirms Romney's crushing victory. - 04/10/2012 07:27:28 PM 798 Views
I could have crushed either of them in that debate - 04/10/2012 09:26:07 PM 779 Views
I watched it now. A few thoughts (albeit rather late): - 05/10/2012 09:46:02 PM 837 Views
You are correct on all points. - 07/10/2012 03:12:51 AM 942 Views
"There is no Soviet domination of Eastern Europe." - 07/10/2012 02:03:49 PM 1239 Views
you are missing a key point - 07/10/2012 04:34:17 PM 734 Views
Am I missing that point? I thought I said clearly enough that I thought Romney was better. *NM* - 07/10/2012 08:47:42 PM 439 Views
maybe, seemed that way to me - 08/10/2012 03:18:18 PM 717 Views

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