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I have never used the Law of Averages to mean anything except the (proven) Law of Large Numbers. Joel Send a noteboard - 05/10/2012 09:22:56 AM
There is no evidence to support your conclusion.

I was a bit surprised Wikipedia defined the Law of Averages to reference small rather than large data sets. "Averages" implies large data sets; I will not say Wikipedias usage is "wrong," but it is incredibly stupid and counterintuitive. Regardless of nomenclature though, the Law of Large Numbers is proven, and that is the concept I have invoked throughout this discussion. The more polls we have, and the more one candidate leads, the less likely the overall result is data noise.

Since February, Romney has been nationally polled against Obama 136 times: He led 23, tied 12 and trailed 101. Chance says it should be 50/50, so those results lean heavily toward Obama. As you note, polls are not random, but polls and elections are subject to nearly all the same deterministic factors (unless one believes all polls have the same internal bias, in which case there is no point discussing them.) In other words, the same factors that cause Obama to lead a disproportionate number of polls make his re-election correspondingly likely.

Obviously deterministic factors can change between a poll and election day, and Romneys decisive debate victory should alter what have always been close polls, just as subsequent events will. However, polling up until 3 October pointed to a narrow but nearly certain Obama victory.
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Romney vs. Obama national poll results.
This message last edited by Joel on 05/10/2012 at 09:23:16 AM
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Romney CRUSHES Obama in First Debate - Leads Swing States by 4% - 04/10/2012 05:32:32 AM 1179 Views
So, is that from a "corrected", "non-skewed" poll? - 04/10/2012 05:51:58 AM 711 Views
Nope, I checked Betfair, the odds on Romney continue to drift - 04/10/2012 10:02:16 AM 782 Views
Wow, you suck at Googling! - 04/10/2012 01:14:22 PM 897 Views
No, you just apparently suck at math - 04/10/2012 07:17:20 PM 652 Views
I know you are sad, but your Messiah may still win.....you never know! - 04/10/2012 07:23:16 PM 721 Views
I'm more of a syndicalist, sorry - 04/10/2012 08:43:48 PM 745 Views
Ooh, would you mind talking more about syndicalism? - 04/10/2012 11:28:40 PM 656 Views
It really should be mandatory for everyone to read factcheck.org after every debate. *NM* - 04/10/2012 09:38:24 AM 402 Views
Seriously. The number of times I squinted and thought, "Wait, that doesn't sound quite right" - 04/10/2012 02:01:12 PM 782 Views
Romney addressed that head-on - 04/10/2012 02:13:44 PM 684 Views
Yeah, that "20 million" comment raised my eyebrows. - 04/10/2012 04:15:49 PM 1051 Views
Why are you not counting the elderly? - 04/10/2012 07:33:28 PM 959 Views
Obama - Lost and Bewildered without Teleprompter.....funny stuff! - 04/10/2012 01:10:40 PM 717 Views
A2000, your message should read: - 04/10/2012 03:42:18 PM 743 Views
I consider the margin of error implied. - 04/10/2012 05:49:50 PM 629 Views
Unfortunately statistics does not support that. - 04/10/2012 06:11:56 PM 750 Views
Of course they do; the law of averages supports that. - 04/10/2012 06:46:27 PM 781 Views
Poll numbers aren't random so even if the law of averages could be applied to a small data set... - 04/10/2012 07:05:49 PM 660 Views
If not random, they are indicative (if not necessary conclusive,) and the data set is large enough. - 04/10/2012 08:55:24 PM 651 Views
Let me rephrase: the law of averages is a belief. You are basing your conclusion on a belief. - 04/10/2012 09:23:50 PM 721 Views
I have never used the Law of Averages to mean anything except the (proven) Law of Large Numbers. - 05/10/2012 09:22:56 AM 848 Views
I'm pretty sure that 136 is not a large number. *NM* - 05/10/2012 12:20:35 PM 421 Views
That is a matter of opinion, but for a binary event I think it huge. - 05/10/2012 12:42:24 PM 760 Views
Without additional data, the default would be that the coin is fair. Since... - 05/10/2012 05:20:21 PM 688 Views
After 136 trials the DEFAULT assumption no longer applies in the face of ample hard data. - 06/10/2012 04:02:51 PM 825 Views
I did the same experiment I suggested for you. - 06/10/2012 04:45:28 PM 658 Views
Still not a 3:1 ratio. - 06/10/2012 06:09:00 PM 898 Views
that is why you can't base things on just one poll - 05/10/2012 01:27:18 AM 842 Views
You are making the same mistake Joel is making. You should read our discussion. *NM* - 05/10/2012 01:50:01 AM 474 Views
there is a difference between statistical errors and model or method errors - 05/10/2012 03:28:38 AM 727 Views
There is a difference between the law of averages and the law of large numbers. - 05/10/2012 04:45:00 AM 941 Views
can wait for Ryan vs Bozo the VP - 04/10/2012 06:07:30 PM 607 Views
+1 - that debate is going to be comical! - 04/10/2012 07:24:26 PM 711 Views
I would end up with alchohol posioning *NM* - 04/10/2012 10:16:51 PM 436 Views
If Biden performs as expected... - 04/10/2012 07:46:16 PM 749 Views
your take on obama's foreign policy debate performance does not seem like reality - 04/10/2012 08:00:51 PM 679 Views
I never would have thought Romney could lay such a beatdown on Obama as I saw last night. - 04/10/2012 08:55:46 PM 764 Views
we saw the anti-romney last night. i doubt obama is going to be so flat-footed against him next time - 04/10/2012 10:35:21 PM 689 Views
Hilarious. - 04/10/2012 11:20:32 PM 659 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 05/10/2012 12:27:33 AM 649 Views
Why can it not be both? - 05/10/2012 12:58:59 PM 790 Views
who would you consider our number one geopolitical foe? - 04/10/2012 10:12:53 PM 780 Views
China is far more dangerous. *NM* - 05/10/2012 07:23:06 AM 337 Views
Whoa, was not expecting that point of agreement. - 05/10/2012 12:35:35 PM 793 Views
I'm not frightened of them, but they're hardly an ally. *NM* - 05/10/2012 03:55:45 PM 431 Views
I am not frightened, but am concerned. - 06/10/2012 01:27:40 PM 777 Views
they may be more dangerous but that doesn't that doesn't automatically make them first - 05/10/2012 01:09:30 PM 769 Views
That's fair enough. *NM* - 05/10/2012 03:54:56 PM 377 Views
WOW - Even the liberal CNN Poll confirms Romney's crushing victory. - 04/10/2012 07:27:28 PM 798 Views
I could have crushed either of them in that debate - 04/10/2012 09:26:07 PM 780 Views
I watched it now. A few thoughts (albeit rather late): - 05/10/2012 09:46:02 PM 837 Views
You are correct on all points. - 07/10/2012 03:12:51 AM 942 Views
"There is no Soviet domination of Eastern Europe." - 07/10/2012 02:03:49 PM 1239 Views
you are missing a key point - 07/10/2012 04:34:17 PM 735 Views
Am I missing that point? I thought I said clearly enough that I thought Romney was better. *NM* - 07/10/2012 08:47:42 PM 440 Views
maybe, seemed that way to me - 08/10/2012 03:18:18 PM 717 Views

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