Active Users:324 Time:13/07/2025 06:48:38 AM
But 100 polls isn't analogous to 100 coin flips. Each of thousands of individuals is a coin flip. Burr Send a noteboard - 07/10/2012 11:05:13 PM
The major polls aren't going to be right half the time. They are each going to be right more than 95% of the time.

If we knew nothing, we'd say each person has a 50-50 chance of choosing either Romney or Obama. Polling a single individual would be like the flip of our coin. And that is the flip which we are trying to prove is biased: i.e., that it will flip towards Obama more often than it will flip towards Romney.

If a poll only surveyed 100 people, and we were only looking at that one poll, you would have a point. But each poll is by itself surveying enough people to say with 95% confidence (or usually more) that the average is between this and that.

At 95% confidence, there is only a 5% chance the real average is outside of that margin. So let's say there are two polls saying pretty much the same thing. For one to be wrong, they would both have to be wrong. But there's only a .25% chance of them both being wrong. If there are three polls that say pretty much the same thing, then for one of them wrong they would all three have to be wrong, and for that there is only a .0125% chance. In other words, if there is a true consensus, then the possibility of even one of those polls being wrong becomes absurdly small; because for one to be wrong many of the others would also have to be wrong, and that is absurdly improbable. (Unless, of course, there is some industry-wide modeling error going on.)

Of course, there isn't a true, true, true consensus. Not in the sense that you can use that math so simply to get easy numbers. But there is still something of a consensus, between polls that each have a high confidence level, and so the probability of any one of the polls within the consensus being wrong is still going to be far less than 5%. Assuming there are no great model errors going on industry-wide, that is precisely why there is a consensus: because the probability of a poll with a high confidence level falling outside of those bounds is very small.
||||||||||*MySmiley*
Only so evil.
This message last edited by Burr on 07/10/2012 at 11:13:18 PM
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Romney CRUSHES Obama in First Debate - Leads Swing States by 4% - 04/10/2012 05:32:32 AM 1122 Views
So, is that from a "corrected", "non-skewed" poll? - 04/10/2012 05:51:58 AM 632 Views
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It really should be mandatory for everyone to read factcheck.org after every debate. *NM* - 04/10/2012 09:38:24 AM 369 Views
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Romney addressed that head-on - 04/10/2012 02:13:44 PM 616 Views
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Obama - Lost and Bewildered without Teleprompter.....funny stuff! - 04/10/2012 01:10:40 PM 648 Views
A2000, your message should read: - 04/10/2012 03:42:18 PM 671 Views
I consider the margin of error implied. - 04/10/2012 05:49:50 PM 575 Views
Unfortunately statistics does not support that. - 04/10/2012 06:11:56 PM 689 Views
Of course they do; the law of averages supports that. - 04/10/2012 06:46:27 PM 720 Views
Poll numbers aren't random so even if the law of averages could be applied to a small data set... - 04/10/2012 07:05:49 PM 598 Views
If not random, they are indicative (if not necessary conclusive,) and the data set is large enough. - 04/10/2012 08:55:24 PM 588 Views
Let me rephrase: the law of averages is a belief. You are basing your conclusion on a belief. - 04/10/2012 09:23:50 PM 663 Views
I have never used the Law of Averages to mean anything except the (proven) Law of Large Numbers. - 05/10/2012 09:22:56 AM 774 Views
I'm pretty sure that 136 is not a large number. *NM* - 05/10/2012 12:20:35 PM 394 Views
That is a matter of opinion, but for a binary event I think it huge. - 05/10/2012 12:42:24 PM 700 Views
Without additional data, the default would be that the coin is fair. Since... - 05/10/2012 05:20:21 PM 628 Views
After 136 trials the DEFAULT assumption no longer applies in the face of ample hard data. - 06/10/2012 04:02:51 PM 755 Views
I did the same experiment I suggested for you. - 06/10/2012 04:45:28 PM 602 Views
Still not a 3:1 ratio. - 06/10/2012 06:09:00 PM 838 Views
Let me try and put it a slightly different way. - 06/10/2012 08:12:35 PM 703 Views
The more lopsided/large the trial, the more LIKELY the coin is unfair;weight is the only way to KNOW - 07/10/2012 12:09:27 PM 850 Views
You're completely missing the point. - 07/10/2012 03:34:29 PM 702 Views
But 100 polls isn't analogous to 100 coin flips. Each of thousands of individuals is a coin flip. - 07/10/2012 11:05:13 PM 688 Views
that is why you can't base things on just one poll - 05/10/2012 01:27:18 AM 774 Views
You are making the same mistake Joel is making. You should read our discussion. *NM* - 05/10/2012 01:50:01 AM 449 Views
there is a difference between statistical errors and model or method errors - 05/10/2012 03:28:38 AM 660 Views
There is a difference between the law of averages and the law of large numbers. - 05/10/2012 04:45:00 AM 854 Views
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I would end up with alchohol posioning *NM* - 04/10/2012 10:16:51 PM 400 Views
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Hilarious. - 04/10/2012 11:20:32 PM 585 Views
Re: Hilarious. - 05/10/2012 12:27:33 AM 594 Views
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who would you consider our number one geopolitical foe? - 04/10/2012 10:12:53 PM 711 Views
China is far more dangerous. *NM* - 05/10/2012 07:23:06 AM 305 Views
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I'm not frightened of them, but they're hardly an ally. *NM* - 05/10/2012 03:55:45 PM 406 Views
I am not frightened, but am concerned. - 06/10/2012 01:27:40 PM 712 Views
they may be more dangerous but that doesn't that doesn't automatically make them first - 05/10/2012 01:09:30 PM 711 Views
That's fair enough. *NM* - 05/10/2012 03:54:56 PM 352 Views
WOW - Even the liberal CNN Poll confirms Romney's crushing victory. - 04/10/2012 07:27:28 PM 740 Views
I could have crushed either of them in that debate - 04/10/2012 09:26:07 PM 722 Views
I watched it now. A few thoughts (albeit rather late): - 05/10/2012 09:46:02 PM 774 Views
You are correct on all points. - 07/10/2012 03:12:51 AM 882 Views
"There is no Soviet domination of Eastern Europe." - 07/10/2012 02:03:49 PM 1164 Views
you are missing a key point - 07/10/2012 04:34:17 PM 679 Views
Am I missing that point? I thought I said clearly enough that I thought Romney was better. *NM* - 07/10/2012 08:47:42 PM 413 Views
maybe, seemed that way to me - 08/10/2012 03:18:18 PM 658 Views

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