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True, but disputing founding articles of faith benefits from tact. Joel Send a noteboard - 27/10/2012 02:02:48 AM
I believe I was good at that once; I am honestly unsure what happened. Fatigue and impatience is only a reason, not an excuse. :[
And honestly, if Mourdock is a Calvinist, then the statement he made is an article of faith that he's entitled to.

Sure, as IN voters are entitled to reject it in a Senator. I did recently argue bigotry should be legal but subject to market censure in private business, after all. ;)

That having been said, I agree with what you've said here, in that omniscient anticipation is not the same as dictating the choices. It leads one to serious error. For that matter, believing that one is foreordained for salvation can lead people to do some terrible things with a sense of impunity. Faith is not just a matter of words, but of letting that faith into one's heart as well.

Fully agreed, if hard to live up to consistently. Impossible unaided, but then, it is not about mans merit or glory.
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God Distances Self From Christian Right Joel - 26/10/2012 01:56:18 PM 1329 Views
Do you really think God would condone abortion? *NM* Dark Knight - 26/10/2012 03:28:25 PM 393 Views
Depends on when a fetus is a being, which the GOP contends is "at the moment of fertilization." Joel - 26/10/2012 03:57:44 PM 641 Views
Actually, I don't see any place in the Bible where God is.... Jeordam - 26/10/2012 04:00:19 PM 818 Views
Where did I say one word about God accommodating our sin? Joel - 26/10/2012 05:55:52 PM 681 Views
You're technically right, Joel, but... Tom - 26/10/2012 07:32:10 PM 656 Views
Almost may count in hand grenades, but definitely not in canon. Joel - 26/10/2012 10:28:57 PM 735 Views
Your lack of scientific understanding is everything in this instance. Jeordam - 26/10/2012 10:44:05 PM 663 Views
Because whether God intends rape is aaaall about science, right? Joel - 26/10/2012 11:08:16 PM 592 Views
You're getting rather emphatic. Jeordam - 26/10/2012 11:27:07 PM 648 Views
Broad fundamental change to US law by controlling all three branches of government provokes that. Joel - 27/10/2012 12:44:59 AM 661 Views
That's a dangerous stance to take as a Christian Tom - 27/10/2012 01:11:14 AM 667 Views
I agree it is good reading; that does not make it binding. Joel - 27/10/2012 01:37:20 AM 675 Views
Jesus that Greek sounds weird to my ears. Dan - 27/10/2012 03:43:40 AM 766 Views
It's really just simplified Attic. Tom - 27/10/2012 06:11:48 AM 650 Views
Condemn women to die? What a strange way to look at this. Narg - 26/10/2012 07:17:16 PM 700 Views
women *did* die before abortion was legalized, there should be no dispute of this aspect moondog - 26/10/2012 07:27:28 PM 735 Views
So we legalize an illegal act because some are willing to harm themselves to do it? *NM* Narg - 26/10/2012 10:02:37 PM 359 Views
no, we legalize the act so that it can be performed safely without killing both mother *and* child *NM* moondog - 26/10/2012 11:08:52 PM 373 Views
At least you acknowledge it as a child. *NM* Jeordam - 26/10/2012 11:28:30 PM 368 Views
Very good point, but that was not (at least soley) what I meant, no. Joel - 26/10/2012 11:12:32 PM 656 Views
If something should be illegal in its own right, it is nonsense to legalize it because criminals Narg - 26/10/2012 11:40:41 PM 687 Views
If banning it saves no lives but inevitably takes more, the ban is counterproductive. Joel - 27/10/2012 12:48:51 AM 697 Views
That is absolutely absurd. It saves the lives of all... Narg - 27/10/2012 12:59:16 AM 720 Views
you're still missing the point that abortions will still be performed if it were illegal moondog - 27/10/2012 01:02:57 AM 625 Views
I'm not missing the point, you are. Narg - 27/10/2012 01:21:39 AM 781 Views
This isn't necessarily true, though it is often due to other factors. nossy - 27/10/2012 02:48:00 PM 682 Views
People who want abortions badly enough to have one will, whether or not law makes it "convenient." Joel - 27/10/2012 02:58:52 AM 611 Views
You're stuck. Narg - 27/10/2012 07:07:36 AM 742 Views
not entirely nossy - 27/10/2012 03:23:07 PM 754 Views
Give me facts, not supposition. Joel - 27/10/2012 04:10:57 PM 692 Views
Telling a woman whose life was in danger not to save it with abortion condemned her to die Joel - 26/10/2012 10:48:53 PM 622 Views
There is no proof that you would accept that a fetus is a child. Narg - 26/10/2012 11:31:50 PM 624 Views
Fantastic question. Jeordam - 26/10/2012 11:43:51 PM 653 Views
No, I would err on the side of caution; have often said as much in just those words. Joel - 27/10/2012 01:18:19 AM 639 Views
Sure there is; show me a fetus acting indepedently and consciously. Joel - 27/10/2012 01:15:00 AM 657 Views
Perfect example of media sensationalism Palatine - 26/10/2012 04:13:41 PM 733 Views
I agree with your larger point and am not trying to be argumentative Sareitha Sedai - 26/10/2012 04:29:23 PM 698 Views
yeah, but what do women know about women's issues? this is man talk time! moondog - 26/10/2012 05:01:58 PM 655 Views
THAT is the whole problem with his comment. Joel - 26/10/2012 05:59:40 PM 621 Views
Or it could mean.... Jeordam - 26/10/2012 11:50:53 PM 673 Views
Re: Or it could mean.... moondog - 27/10/2012 12:14:31 AM 654 Views
Having addressed this in response to Legolas in moondogs thread on Mourdock, I will just link that. Joel - 27/10/2012 01:43:48 AM 682 Views
I agree nossy - 26/10/2012 07:27:21 PM 719 Views
It's always a slippery slope, talking about what God did and did not intend. Legolas - 27/10/2012 12:06:22 AM 673 Views
Yes nossy - 27/10/2012 02:20:46 AM 691 Views
There is a logically consistent way; you did not ask for it, so I will be brief. Joel - 27/10/2012 02:53:09 AM 657 Views
I suppose it is splitting hairs. Palatine - 27/10/2012 04:32:43 PM 662 Views
Pregnancy cannot be separated from its cause. Joel - 26/10/2012 05:51:28 PM 678 Views
Re: Pregnancy cannot be separated from its cause. Cannoli - 27/10/2012 01:17:04 AM 674 Views
Who said anything about denying them funds? Joel - 27/10/2012 01:54:39 AM 701 Views
God intends everything. Palatine - 27/10/2012 04:40:58 PM 751 Views
"Intends" is a big word. Joel - 27/10/2012 09:23:13 PM 672 Views
Re: "Intends" is a big word. Palatine - 29/10/2012 04:56:49 PM 635 Views
I am familiar with the Problem of Evil. Joel - 29/10/2012 06:41:13 PM 662 Views
Absolutely agree. *NM* Legolas - 26/10/2012 11:47:04 PM 347 Views
It is sad that this is getting more press than the Bengazi scandal *NM* random thoughts - 26/10/2012 05:58:22 PM 350 Views
that's probably because it's more relevant to most people's lives *NM* moondog - 26/10/2012 06:06:10 PM 367 Views
It is sad partisanship trumps policy for so many. Joel - 26/10/2012 10:52:34 PM 593 Views
This entire scandal really speaks to the Calvinist heresy in particular. Tom - 26/10/2012 07:10:38 PM 646 Views
I was trying REALLY hard to avoid putting it in precisely those terms. Joel - 26/10/2012 10:12:17 PM 694 Views
Well, but really, the fundamental crux of the issue is precisely that. Tom - 27/10/2012 01:03:26 AM 655 Views
True, but disputing founding articles of faith benefits from tact. Joel - 27/10/2012 02:02:48 AM 604 Views
Come on, Tom. Dannymac - 27/10/2012 03:29:39 AM 630 Views
Are you really defending Calvinism? Be better at metaphysics. Dan - 27/10/2012 03:36:22 AM 715 Views
That's precisely the poor sophistry I'd expect from a Calvinist. Tom - 27/10/2012 06:06:31 AM 660 Views
I believe HE grasps the difference between predestination and determinism well. Joel - 27/10/2012 09:33:14 PM 695 Views
The comment that sparked this was moronic even to the vast majority of religious conservatives. *NM* Narg - 26/10/2012 09:42:51 PM 361 Views
Yet its author remains the only Senate nominee for whom Romney is running ads. Joel - 26/10/2012 10:53:37 PM 640 Views
Is the senator's comment more disgusting to you than the President's vote against the Narg - 26/10/2012 11:54:55 PM 651 Views
how does one vote against a bill which passed by unanimous consent? moondog - 27/10/2012 12:11:37 AM 642 Views
As a state senator in 2001 in illinois he was the sole opponent to the aforementioned bill. *NM* Narg - 27/10/2012 12:14:08 AM 364 Views
[citation needed] moondog - 27/10/2012 12:15:41 AM 609 Views
It was an illinois state bill. *NM* Narg - 27/10/2012 12:23:12 AM 343 Views
yes, i finally found *something* regarding a state bill which he did oppose moondog - 27/10/2012 12:34:40 AM 652 Views
It is not hard to find, really. Joel - 27/10/2012 02:40:06 AM 614 Views
Links: Narg - 27/10/2012 12:51:12 AM 674 Views
Double post. *NM* Narg - 27/10/2012 12:18:42 AM 343 Views
The BAIPA became federal law 2 years before Obamas Senate win; he says he would have voted for it. Joel - 27/10/2012 02:33:26 AM 635 Views
Once he started taking fire for it he said he would have voted for it? Well that clears that up. Narg - 27/10/2012 07:09:21 AM 823 Views
He "took fire" for a federal law passed before he was in Congress? Joel - 27/10/2012 04:08:25 PM 710 Views
amazing imlad - 28/10/2012 05:04:21 AM 757 Views
Women are certainly encouraged to weigh in, but everyone is entitled to thoughts on the matter Joel - 28/10/2012 02:22:55 PM 644 Views
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