The BAIPA became federal law 2 years before Obamas Senate win; he says he would have voted for it.
Joel Send a noteboard - 27/10/2012 02:33:26 AM
Born Alive Infant Protection Act, an act that allows a physician to be able to nourish a viable baby that survives an abortion and is alive outside the womb? Or are you only outraged when republican's do evil?
Or can only conservative be wrong by definition?
Or can only conservative be wrong by definition?
Talk is cheap, but you cannot condemn a vote he did not cast against a law passed before he was elected. He did vote against an IL state version NOT restritect to viable fetuses, due to fears that would invalidate all abortion. On the IL Senate floor, he stated,
Number one, whenever we define a previable fetus as a person that is protected by the equal protection clause or the other elements in the Constitution, what we’re really saying is, in fact, that they are persons that are entitled to the kinds of protections that would be provided to a – a child, a nine-month-old – child that was delivered to term. That determination then, essentially, if it was accepted by a court, would forbid abortions to take place. I mean, it – it would essentially bar abortions, because the equal protection clause does not allow somebody to kill a child, and if this is a child, then this would be an antiabortion statute.
State law already requires IL doctors apply every measure to save aborted VIABLE fetuses born alive (i.e. babies.) This bill would have required the same for NON-VIABLE fetuses, on the grounds they are people. Of course, if the law says non-viable fetuses are people, then all abortion is murder, and thus illegal.
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Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
God Distances Self From Christian Right
- 26/10/2012 01:56:18 PM
1329 Views
Do you really think God would condone abortion? *NM*
- 26/10/2012 03:28:25 PM
393 Views
Depends on when a fetus is a being, which the GOP contends is "at the moment of fertilization."
- 26/10/2012 03:57:44 PM
641 Views
Actually, I don't see any place in the Bible where God is....
- 26/10/2012 04:00:19 PM
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Where did I say one word about God accommodating our sin?
- 26/10/2012 05:55:52 PM
681 Views
You're technically right, Joel, but...
- 26/10/2012 07:32:10 PM
656 Views
Almost may count in hand grenades, but definitely not in canon. 
- 26/10/2012 10:28:57 PM
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- 26/10/2012 10:28:57 PM
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Your lack of scientific understanding is everything in this instance.
- 26/10/2012 10:44:05 PM
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Because whether God intends rape is aaaall about science, right?
- 26/10/2012 11:08:16 PM
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You're getting rather emphatic.
- 26/10/2012 11:27:07 PM
648 Views
Broad fundamental change to US law by controlling all three branches of government provokes that.
- 27/10/2012 12:44:59 AM
661 Views
Condemn women to die? What a strange way to look at this.
- 26/10/2012 07:17:16 PM
700 Views
women *did* die before abortion was legalized, there should be no dispute of this aspect
- 26/10/2012 07:27:28 PM
735 Views
So we legalize an illegal act because some are willing to harm themselves to do it? *NM*
- 26/10/2012 10:02:37 PM
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no, we legalize the act so that it can be performed safely without killing both mother *and* child *NM*
- 26/10/2012 11:08:52 PM
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Very good point, but that was not (at least soley) what I meant, no.
- 26/10/2012 11:12:32 PM
656 Views
If something should be illegal in its own right, it is nonsense to legalize it because criminals
- 26/10/2012 11:40:41 PM
687 Views
If banning it saves no lives but inevitably takes more, the ban is counterproductive.
- 27/10/2012 12:48:51 AM
697 Views
That is absolutely absurd. It saves the lives of all...
- 27/10/2012 12:59:16 AM
720 Views
you're still missing the point that abortions will still be performed if it were illegal
- 27/10/2012 01:02:57 AM
625 Views
I'm not missing the point, you are.
- 27/10/2012 01:21:39 AM
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This isn't necessarily true, though it is often due to other factors.
- 27/10/2012 02:48:00 PM
682 Views
People who want abortions badly enough to have one will, whether or not law makes it "convenient."
- 27/10/2012 02:58:52 AM
611 Views
Telling a woman whose life was in danger not to save it with abortion condemned her to die
- 26/10/2012 10:48:53 PM
622 Views
There is no proof that you would accept that a fetus is a child.
- 26/10/2012 11:31:50 PM
625 Views
Fantastic question.
- 26/10/2012 11:43:51 PM
653 Views
No, I would err on the side of caution; have often said as much in just those words.
- 27/10/2012 01:18:19 AM
639 Views
Sure there is; show me a fetus acting indepedently and consciously.
- 27/10/2012 01:15:00 AM
657 Views
Perfect example of media sensationalism
- 26/10/2012 04:13:41 PM
733 Views
I agree with your larger point and am not trying to be argumentative
- 26/10/2012 04:29:23 PM
698 Views
yeah, but what do women know about women's issues? this is man talk time!
- 26/10/2012 05:01:58 PM
655 Views
THAT is the whole problem with his comment.
- 26/10/2012 05:59:40 PM
621 Views
Or it could mean....
- 26/10/2012 11:50:53 PM
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Having addressed this in response to Legolas in moondogs thread on Mourdock, I will just link that.
- 27/10/2012 01:43:48 AM
682 Views
I agree
- 26/10/2012 07:27:21 PM
719 Views
It's always a slippery slope, talking about what God did and did not intend.
- 27/10/2012 12:06:22 AM
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There is a logically consistent way; you did not ask for it, so I will be brief.
- 27/10/2012 02:53:09 AM
657 Views
Pregnancy cannot be separated from its cause.
- 26/10/2012 05:51:28 PM
678 Views
God intends everything.
- 27/10/2012 04:40:58 PM
751 Views
"Intends" is a big word.
- 27/10/2012 09:23:13 PM
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It is sad that this is getting more press than the Bengazi scandal *NM*
- 26/10/2012 05:58:22 PM
350 Views
that's probably because it's more relevant to most people's lives *NM*
- 26/10/2012 06:06:10 PM
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This entire scandal really speaks to the Calvinist heresy in particular.
- 26/10/2012 07:10:38 PM
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I was trying REALLY hard to avoid putting it in precisely those terms. 
- 26/10/2012 10:12:17 PM
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- 26/10/2012 10:12:17 PM
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Well, but really, the fundamental crux of the issue is precisely that.
- 27/10/2012 01:03:26 AM
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True, but disputing founding articles of faith benefits from tact.
- 27/10/2012 02:02:48 AM
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Come on, Tom.
- 27/10/2012 03:29:39 AM
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I believe HE grasps the difference between predestination and determinism well.
- 27/10/2012 09:33:14 PM
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The comment that sparked this was moronic even to the vast majority of religious conservatives. *NM*
- 26/10/2012 09:42:51 PM
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Yet its author remains the only Senate nominee for whom Romney is running ads.
- 26/10/2012 10:53:37 PM
640 Views
Is the senator's comment more disgusting to you than the President's vote against the
- 26/10/2012 11:54:55 PM
651 Views
how does one vote against a bill which passed by unanimous consent?
- 27/10/2012 12:11:37 AM
642 Views
As a state senator in 2001 in illinois he was the sole opponent to the aforementioned bill. *NM*
- 27/10/2012 12:14:08 AM
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[citation needed]
- 27/10/2012 12:15:41 AM
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It was an illinois state bill. *NM*
- 27/10/2012 12:23:12 AM
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yes, i finally found *something* regarding a state bill which he did oppose
- 27/10/2012 12:34:40 AM
652 Views
The BAIPA became federal law 2 years before Obamas Senate win; he says he would have voted for it.
- 27/10/2012 02:33:26 AM
636 Views
Once he started taking fire for it he said he would have voted for it? Well that clears that up.
- 27/10/2012 07:09:21 AM
823 Views
He "took fire" for a federal law passed before he was in Congress?
- 27/10/2012 04:08:25 PM
710 Views
amazing
- 28/10/2012 05:04:21 AM
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Women are certainly encouraged to weigh in, but everyone is entitled to thoughts on the matter
- 28/10/2012 02:22:55 PM
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