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we also don't need unions to keep people on the job who are bad at it..... moondog Send a noteboard - 12/12/2012 06:20:22 PM
But what I do see is people who are bad at their job (for whatever reason) who are still employed. That is wrong. In a "right to work" state, what keeps you employeed is doing a good job.


so this argument that unions exist solely to allow shitty employees to keep their jobs is also not accurate. the fact of the matter is, what keeps you employed in any "right to work" state is the beneficence of your employer, not whether or not you are any good at what you do. hence, "right to work" is a concept born of mega-millionaire CEOs who want to keep labor costs lower than the market should be able to bear.
"The RIAA has shown a certain disregard for the creative people of the industry in their eagerness to protect the revenues of the record companies." -- Frank Zappa

"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman
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Congrats to Michigan - The Newest Right to Work State! Anonymous2000 - 12/12/2012 04:59:29 AM 1529 Views
It's great that they were able to do it. Tom - 12/12/2012 02:45:39 PM 836 Views
I just think it's so... odd... that people don't realize things constantly evolve. beetnemesis - 12/12/2012 05:18:11 PM 781 Views
Isn't this a symptom of evolution? Jeordam - 12/12/2012 06:12:36 PM 821 Views
we also don't need unions to keep people on the job who are bad at it..... moondog - 12/12/2012 06:20:22 PM 811 Views
Unions are all about protecting underperforming workers and the union leadership. Anonymous2000 - 12/12/2012 06:37:41 PM 758 Views
Dude, that's insane. beetnemesis - 12/12/2012 06:58:42 PM 811 Views
That's a bit naive. And instead of evolution, I should have said "ever-changing" beetnemesis - 12/12/2012 06:55:41 PM 702 Views
No, big companies aren't all of a sudden altruistic... Jeordam - 12/12/2012 07:33:16 PM 762 Views
your three examples are of employers demanding workers do more for less moondog - 12/12/2012 07:41:12 PM 852 Views
The good and the bad of unions: Narg - 12/12/2012 10:33:46 PM 936 Views
Double post. Narg - 12/12/2012 10:33:50 PM 1024 Views
Ok...employeers demanding people to do more for less. Jeordam - 13/12/2012 10:56:32 PM 765 Views
the point was that the union did not strike, the workers were prevented from working by management moondog - 13/12/2012 11:25:07 PM 806 Views
Yes, and if there was not a union... beetnemesis - 13/12/2012 04:56:57 AM 783 Views
What are the downsides of Unions? *NM* Narg - 12/12/2012 10:30:17 PM 461 Views
What are the upsides for anyone BUT unions? Cannoli - 13/12/2012 11:58:23 PM 847 Views
the answer to the political influence is hard campaign contribution limits from individuals only moondog - 14/12/2012 12:27:57 AM 734 Views
Cannoli - 19/12/2012 01:33:13 AM 960 Views
I was hoping to hear what a union supporter recognizes as flaws of unions. Narg - 14/12/2012 08:55:46 PM 863 Views
I'll tell you what my perceptions are.... Jeordam - 14/12/2012 09:30:33 PM 905 Views
one point i need to address here: moondog - 14/12/2012 10:09:24 PM 701 Views
Re: I was hoping to hear what a union supporter recognizes as flaws of unions. moondog - 14/12/2012 10:07:39 PM 675 Views
Sorry, didn't realize this was addressed to me. Sure, ok: beetnemesis - 15/12/2012 05:14:57 AM 927 Views
it's great? moondog - 12/12/2012 05:29:00 PM 784 Views
Pissed off people.... Jeordam - 12/12/2012 06:16:49 PM 712 Views
again, what industry will those people looking for work go to in michigan? moondog - 12/12/2012 06:23:47 PM 830 Views
This used to be the case, but no longer. ranagrande - 12/12/2012 06:34:01 PM 685 Views
but that's my point exactly moondog - 12/12/2012 06:40:20 PM 750 Views
Which industry are you refering to? *NM* Isaac - 12/12/2012 06:23:55 PM 388 Views
As a native Michigander, I can tell you it's great. ranagrande - 12/12/2012 06:26:53 PM 722 Views
+1 - This is going to help bring jobs to MI and benefit the auto industry. Anonymous2000 - 12/12/2012 06:33:43 PM 717 Views
unions still aren't the problem in michigan, it's reliance on a single industry as the main employer moondog - 12/12/2012 06:37:44 PM 695 Views
Michigan is one of the fastest growing areas for the tech industry. Michigan is starting to expand. everynametaken - 19/12/2012 03:28:18 AM 887 Views
So let me get this straight. Dannymac - 13/12/2012 03:54:14 PM 789 Views
Yes, it's a good thing, a very, very good thing! Anonymous2000 - 13/12/2012 05:45:43 PM 740 Views
no "right to work" in MO, MT, CO, NM, KY, WV, OH, MA, NY, DE, MN, WI, PA, OR, WA, HI, AK, MD moondog - 13/12/2012 06:56:17 PM 771 Views
Just to play devil's advocate... Tom - 13/12/2012 09:12:02 PM 741 Views
That would be an interesting study... Jeordam - 13/12/2012 09:51:21 PM 728 Views
Re: Just to play devil's advocate... moondog - 13/12/2012 09:57:07 PM 689 Views
I, for one, stipulate that you are correct. Jeordam - 13/12/2012 10:06:34 PM 771 Views
Re: I, for one, stipulate that you are correct. moondog - 13/12/2012 10:18:27 PM 764 Views
How is that wrong? Jeordam - 13/12/2012 10:52:24 PM 710 Views
it's wrong because it ultimately drives down *all* workers' pay, not just the unions moondog - 13/12/2012 11:26:00 PM 735 Views
Your argument is completely fallacious. Tom - 14/12/2012 04:17:58 AM 729 Views
A brilliant argument... Dannymac - 14/12/2012 07:23:53 AM 809 Views
You are assuming that business owners do not value "on the job" experience Orange - 14/12/2012 09:03:35 AM 870 Views
Your hypothetical doesn't stand up in the real world, however. Tom - 14/12/2012 02:46:23 PM 796 Views
the only reason unions are obsolete is because republicans don't want them supporting dems moondog - 14/12/2012 06:43:56 PM 718 Views
Unions being obsolete has almost nothing to do with internal American politics Tom - 14/12/2012 07:10:38 PM 657 Views
i would disagree, at least with respect to the spate of "right to work" laws being pushed through moondog - 14/12/2012 07:32:26 PM 732 Views
Unions aren't going to help rein in CEO pay or corporate profits. Tom - 14/12/2012 10:48:51 PM 716 Views
i'll take you one further.... moondog - 14/12/2012 11:24:26 PM 677 Views
I have suggested that before Tom - 15/12/2012 02:31:07 PM 708 Views
so you did. sorry about that! moondog - 15/12/2012 03:59:16 PM 688 Views
So to work with your thoughts (regarding the Romans) Jeordam - 14/12/2012 06:07:06 PM 713 Views
funny thing about that..... moondog - 14/12/2012 07:25:50 PM 671 Views
And so what if they are all shit jobs with substandard pay! Dannymac - 14/12/2012 07:08:41 AM 737 Views
What do you want me to say? Jeordam - 14/12/2012 05:58:45 PM 837 Views
And so the destruction of the Middle Class continues. *NM* Dannymac - 13/12/2012 03:43:36 PM 374 Views
The unions already destroyed the middle class..... Anonymous2000 - 13/12/2012 05:46:56 PM 756 Views
Do you really not understand why unions existed in the first place? Dannymac - 14/12/2012 06:55:27 AM 680 Views
Why they first existed is not in issue. It is if they STILL serve a useful or detrimental purpose. HyogaRott - 14/12/2012 03:00:48 PM 742 Views
Yeah, moron! What is wrong with you, that you do not blindly accept his underlying premise? Cannoli - 19/12/2012 01:35:37 AM 1066 Views
Damn, I agree with Anonymous2000. callandor1000 - 14/12/2012 04:29:36 AM 778 Views
This must be a trying time for you. Dannymac - 14/12/2012 07:06:56 AM 733 Views
Callandor sees the light, perhaps it's time for you as well! *NM* Anonymous2000 - 14/12/2012 02:08:47 PM 336 Views
HOW they are doing it..is bullshit Amyrlin - 13/12/2012 06:33:09 PM 888 Views
How? Residents of MI elected a Republican legislature and Governor..... Anonymous2000 - 13/12/2012 09:25:43 PM 701 Views
You have the right to work, not the right to vote in an election as you see fit and keep your job. *NM* heartbreak - 15/12/2012 03:23:13 AM 425 Views
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