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Re: I was hoping to hear what a union supporter recognizes as flaws of unions. moondog Send a noteboard - 14/12/2012 10:07:39 PM
He implied that he thinks unions have flaws, I was wondering what he thinks they are.


here are some from my own observations, in no particular order:

- incestual relationships with other union groups: unions can only hire other union workers when they need work done in a field where their workers do not have any specialty. e.g. - if you work for UAW and you need your building remodeled, only union carpenters and electricians, etc can be hired. this is meant to show solidarity with other union workers, but ends up costing extra in the short term. these things should be up for competitive bidding, imho. let the union workers compete with non-union and take the least expensive, best quality option. if the union is slightly more expensive but has considerably higher quality work, fine. if the work is equal, it should go to the most cost-effective bid

- protectionism: if your facility is a union shop, you CANNOT have ANY non-union people do work, even on a volunteer basis. i had the occasion to work on a convention in a union convention hall and some of the people in our crew had worked on a different convention a few weeks earlier in the same hall. they said the union tacked on several tens of thousands of dollars because people wanted to help clean up and started stacking chairs to help the regular crew. the union bosses charged extra for it because they wanted to punish people for helping out. sometimes, people just want to feel helpful, they should not be punished for their volunteerism.

- inflexibility: i think unions sometimes move too slowly to keep up with the business needs of the companies they work for. part of this is because their bargaining agreements last years and part of this is related to the protectionism i mentioned before. i don't think workers should keep giving up pay and benefits so that CEOs can give themselves bigger and bigger bonuses, but i also don't think unions should completely rule out the changing climate when they go into negotiations.
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Congrats to Michigan - The Newest Right to Work State! - 12/12/2012 04:59:29 AM 1291 Views
It's great that they were able to do it. - 12/12/2012 02:45:39 PM 645 Views
I just think it's so... odd... that people don't realize things constantly evolve. - 12/12/2012 05:18:11 PM 585 Views
Isn't this a symptom of evolution? - 12/12/2012 06:12:36 PM 634 Views
we also don't need unions to keep people on the job who are bad at it..... - 12/12/2012 06:20:22 PM 626 Views
Unions are all about protecting underperforming workers and the union leadership. - 12/12/2012 06:37:41 PM 561 Views
Dude, that's insane. - 12/12/2012 06:58:42 PM 624 Views
That's a bit naive. And instead of evolution, I should have said "ever-changing" - 12/12/2012 06:55:41 PM 509 Views
No, big companies aren't all of a sudden altruistic... - 12/12/2012 07:33:16 PM 565 Views
your three examples are of employers demanding workers do more for less - 12/12/2012 07:41:12 PM 667 Views
The good and the bad of unions: - 12/12/2012 10:33:46 PM 737 Views
Double post. - 12/12/2012 10:33:50 PM 788 Views
Yes, and if there was not a union... - 13/12/2012 04:56:57 AM 551 Views
What are the downsides of Unions? *NM* - 12/12/2012 10:30:17 PM 377 Views
What are the upsides for anyone BUT unions? - 13/12/2012 11:58:23 PM 658 Views
the answer to the political influence is hard campaign contribution limits from individuals only - 14/12/2012 12:27:57 AM 554 Views
- 19/12/2012 01:33:13 AM 769 Views
I was hoping to hear what a union supporter recognizes as flaws of unions. - 14/12/2012 08:55:46 PM 669 Views
I'll tell you what my perceptions are.... - 14/12/2012 09:30:33 PM 677 Views
one point i need to address here: - 14/12/2012 10:09:24 PM 522 Views
Re: I was hoping to hear what a union supporter recognizes as flaws of unions. - 14/12/2012 10:07:39 PM 479 Views
Sorry, didn't realize this was addressed to me. Sure, ok: - 15/12/2012 05:14:57 AM 724 Views
it's great? - 12/12/2012 05:29:00 PM 602 Views
Pissed off people.... - 12/12/2012 06:16:49 PM 521 Views
again, what industry will those people looking for work go to in michigan? - 12/12/2012 06:23:47 PM 646 Views
This used to be the case, but no longer. - 12/12/2012 06:34:01 PM 502 Views
but that's my point exactly - 12/12/2012 06:40:20 PM 559 Views
Which industry are you refering to? *NM* - 12/12/2012 06:23:55 PM 304 Views
As a native Michigander, I can tell you it's great. - 12/12/2012 06:26:53 PM 544 Views
+1 - This is going to help bring jobs to MI and benefit the auto industry. - 12/12/2012 06:33:43 PM 519 Views
So let me get this straight. - 13/12/2012 03:54:14 PM 603 Views
Yes, it's a good thing, a very, very good thing! - 13/12/2012 05:45:43 PM 548 Views
no "right to work" in MO, MT, CO, NM, KY, WV, OH, MA, NY, DE, MN, WI, PA, OR, WA, HI, AK, MD - 13/12/2012 06:56:17 PM 592 Views
Just to play devil's advocate... - 13/12/2012 09:12:02 PM 551 Views
That would be an interesting study... - 13/12/2012 09:51:21 PM 532 Views
Re: Just to play devil's advocate... - 13/12/2012 09:57:07 PM 500 Views
I, for one, stipulate that you are correct. - 13/12/2012 10:06:34 PM 584 Views
Re: I, for one, stipulate that you are correct. - 13/12/2012 10:18:27 PM 558 Views
How is that wrong? - 13/12/2012 10:52:24 PM 517 Views
it's wrong because it ultimately drives down *all* workers' pay, not just the unions - 13/12/2012 11:26:00 PM 536 Views
Your argument is completely fallacious. - 14/12/2012 04:17:58 AM 529 Views
A brilliant argument... - 14/12/2012 07:23:53 AM 609 Views
the only reason unions are obsolete is because republicans don't want them supporting dems - 14/12/2012 06:43:56 PM 535 Views
Unions being obsolete has almost nothing to do with internal American politics - 14/12/2012 07:10:38 PM 461 Views
i would disagree, at least with respect to the spate of "right to work" laws being pushed through - 14/12/2012 07:32:26 PM 544 Views
Unions aren't going to help rein in CEO pay or corporate profits. - 14/12/2012 10:48:51 PM 524 Views
i'll take you one further.... - 14/12/2012 11:24:26 PM 463 Views
I have suggested that before - 15/12/2012 02:31:07 PM 515 Views
so you did. sorry about that! - 15/12/2012 03:59:16 PM 490 Views
So to work with your thoughts (regarding the Romans) - 14/12/2012 06:07:06 PM 526 Views
funny thing about that..... - 14/12/2012 07:25:50 PM 455 Views
And so what if they are all shit jobs with substandard pay! - 14/12/2012 07:08:41 AM 548 Views
What do you want me to say? - 14/12/2012 05:58:45 PM 602 Views
And so the destruction of the Middle Class continues. *NM* - 13/12/2012 03:43:36 PM 291 Views
Damn, I agree with Anonymous2000. - 14/12/2012 04:29:36 AM 593 Views
This must be a trying time for you. - 14/12/2012 07:06:56 AM 538 Views
Callandor sees the light, perhaps it's time for you as well! *NM* - 14/12/2012 02:08:47 PM 260 Views
HOW they are doing it..is bullshit - 13/12/2012 06:33:09 PM 680 Views
How? Residents of MI elected a Republican legislature and Governor..... - 13/12/2012 09:25:43 PM 510 Views

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