Active Users:855 Time:28/12/2025 04:32:55 AM
I'll tell you what my perceptions are.... Jeordam Send a noteboard - 14/12/2012 09:30:33 PM
He implied that he thinks unions have flaws, I was wondering what he thinks they are.


Lack of accountability - The Union officials are accountable to no one. Their activities, policies, and procedures are self-created & self-regulated. If something is wrong, there is no higher authority that controls them. It is essentially a club, where the club leaders get to choose who gets to play in the clubhouse.

Duplication of effort - There are child labor laws. There are OSHA laws. There are wage/hour laws. The union's efforts are duplications of laws that ensure safe workplace practices. Since the laws of the land superceed any organization policies, they are not needed.

Forced Participation - If someone wants to work at a "union shop", but doesn't want to be part of the union, they are out of luck (or gonna be in a tough place). I want the freedom to pay or not pay dues. Don't just assume that because I work someplace that I am obligated to give to a cause.

Bad workers get to stay - How many instances can you point to where a bad worker gets to stay in their job because of a possition with the union. Whether its a tenured teacher who is horrible at their job, or a lazy auto-worker who is drunk on the job. Firing them out of hand is impossible. Instead, months of dealing with the union is necessary.

Manipulation of the going rate for Labor - Forcing the workplace to pay labor rates which are unsupported by output. That's horrible. The going rate is the going rate. If that worker gets "undercut" so be it. Find another job. There's only so far one can get undercut before the quality of work suffers. I'd rather play that game then be forced to pay someone what their work isn't worth.

Lack of Competition - I want the best. I don't want people who aren't the best. Union isn't the best. Union is a wildcard (could be the best, could be the worst). In a union environment, I'm stuck with whom I'm stuck with. In a non-union, I get to try a worker out. If I don't like them, I get to get rid of them and try again.

Let's start with those.
~Jeordam
ex-Admin at wotmania (all things wot & art galleries)
Saving the Princess, Humanity, or the World-Entire since 1985
Reply to message
Congrats to Michigan - The Newest Right to Work State! - 12/12/2012 04:59:29 AM 1550 Views
It's great that they were able to do it. - 12/12/2012 02:45:39 PM 857 Views
I just think it's so... odd... that people don't realize things constantly evolve. - 12/12/2012 05:18:11 PM 800 Views
Isn't this a symptom of evolution? - 12/12/2012 06:12:36 PM 839 Views
we also don't need unions to keep people on the job who are bad at it..... - 12/12/2012 06:20:22 PM 829 Views
Unions are all about protecting underperforming workers and the union leadership. - 12/12/2012 06:37:41 PM 780 Views
Dude, that's insane. - 12/12/2012 06:58:42 PM 834 Views
That's a bit naive. And instead of evolution, I should have said "ever-changing" - 12/12/2012 06:55:41 PM 724 Views
No, big companies aren't all of a sudden altruistic... - 12/12/2012 07:33:16 PM 786 Views
your three examples are of employers demanding workers do more for less - 12/12/2012 07:41:12 PM 872 Views
The good and the bad of unions: - 12/12/2012 10:33:46 PM 956 Views
Double post. - 12/12/2012 10:33:50 PM 1048 Views
Yes, and if there was not a union... - 13/12/2012 04:56:57 AM 802 Views
What are the downsides of Unions? *NM* - 12/12/2012 10:30:17 PM 472 Views
What are the upsides for anyone BUT unions? - 13/12/2012 11:58:23 PM 863 Views
the answer to the political influence is hard campaign contribution limits from individuals only - 14/12/2012 12:27:57 AM 754 Views
- 19/12/2012 01:33:13 AM 979 Views
I was hoping to hear what a union supporter recognizes as flaws of unions. - 14/12/2012 08:55:46 PM 883 Views
I'll tell you what my perceptions are.... - 14/12/2012 09:30:33 PM 925 Views
one point i need to address here: - 14/12/2012 10:09:24 PM 724 Views
Sorry, didn't realize this was addressed to me. Sure, ok: - 15/12/2012 05:14:57 AM 945 Views
it's great? - 12/12/2012 05:29:00 PM 805 Views
Pissed off people.... - 12/12/2012 06:16:49 PM 731 Views
again, what industry will those people looking for work go to in michigan? - 12/12/2012 06:23:47 PM 851 Views
This used to be the case, but no longer. - 12/12/2012 06:34:01 PM 703 Views
but that's my point exactly - 12/12/2012 06:40:20 PM 768 Views
Which industry are you refering to? *NM* - 12/12/2012 06:23:55 PM 397 Views
As a native Michigander, I can tell you it's great. - 12/12/2012 06:26:53 PM 737 Views
+1 - This is going to help bring jobs to MI and benefit the auto industry. - 12/12/2012 06:33:43 PM 762 Views
So let me get this straight. - 13/12/2012 03:54:14 PM 808 Views
Yes, it's a good thing, a very, very good thing! - 13/12/2012 05:45:43 PM 762 Views
no "right to work" in MO, MT, CO, NM, KY, WV, OH, MA, NY, DE, MN, WI, PA, OR, WA, HI, AK, MD - 13/12/2012 06:56:17 PM 792 Views
Just to play devil's advocate... - 13/12/2012 09:12:02 PM 766 Views
That would be an interesting study... - 13/12/2012 09:51:21 PM 752 Views
Re: Just to play devil's advocate... - 13/12/2012 09:57:07 PM 712 Views
I, for one, stipulate that you are correct. - 13/12/2012 10:06:34 PM 789 Views
Re: I, for one, stipulate that you are correct. - 13/12/2012 10:18:27 PM 783 Views
How is that wrong? - 13/12/2012 10:52:24 PM 730 Views
it's wrong because it ultimately drives down *all* workers' pay, not just the unions - 13/12/2012 11:26:00 PM 752 Views
Your argument is completely fallacious. - 14/12/2012 04:17:58 AM 752 Views
A brilliant argument... - 14/12/2012 07:23:53 AM 827 Views
the only reason unions are obsolete is because republicans don't want them supporting dems - 14/12/2012 06:43:56 PM 738 Views
Unions being obsolete has almost nothing to do with internal American politics - 14/12/2012 07:10:38 PM 680 Views
i would disagree, at least with respect to the spate of "right to work" laws being pushed through - 14/12/2012 07:32:26 PM 750 Views
Unions aren't going to help rein in CEO pay or corporate profits. - 14/12/2012 10:48:51 PM 733 Views
i'll take you one further.... - 14/12/2012 11:24:26 PM 702 Views
I have suggested that before - 15/12/2012 02:31:07 PM 731 Views
so you did. sorry about that! - 15/12/2012 03:59:16 PM 708 Views
So to work with your thoughts (regarding the Romans) - 14/12/2012 06:07:06 PM 733 Views
funny thing about that..... - 14/12/2012 07:25:50 PM 693 Views
And so what if they are all shit jobs with substandard pay! - 14/12/2012 07:08:41 AM 759 Views
What do you want me to say? - 14/12/2012 05:58:45 PM 853 Views
And so the destruction of the Middle Class continues. *NM* - 13/12/2012 03:43:36 PM 382 Views
Damn, I agree with Anonymous2000. - 14/12/2012 04:29:36 AM 795 Views
This must be a trying time for you. - 14/12/2012 07:06:56 AM 751 Views
Callandor sees the light, perhaps it's time for you as well! *NM* - 14/12/2012 02:08:47 PM 345 Views
HOW they are doing it..is bullshit - 13/12/2012 06:33:09 PM 910 Views
How? Residents of MI elected a Republican legislature and Governor..... - 13/12/2012 09:25:43 PM 740 Views

Reply to Message