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I will stipulate to everything you just said, but disagree with your conclusion. HyogaRott Send a noteboard - 13/07/2013 12:58:10 AM

The burden of proof is not on Zimmerman, it is on the state. Zimmerman does not have to prove who started the fight. If the prosecution can not prove that he started the fight, then he has performed no criminal act. Massively stupid, yes; criminal, no.

Zimmerman following Martin was legal, even IF it scared Martin. I can follow you all day long, and you have no real (though several practical)legal recourse to stop me. If I do it habitually over several days you do. Zimmerman was stupid to follow Martin, but legally allowed to do so.

The state failed to prove (or even effectively insinuate) that Zimmerman initiated the physical altercation with Martin. Physical trauma (none to Martin, except on his hands, facial trauma, broken nose, lacerations to the back of his head) indicates that Martin was the aggressor (he inflicted but did not receive damage). If Martin was the aggressor, then Zimmerman was defending himself. The only argument you can make at that point is that Zimmerman shouldn't have ben in fear for his life (thus allowed to use lethal force). If you want to try that argument, I suggest you find someone to break your nose and bounce your head on concrete, I believe your opinion will change.

1 final point. Reverse the outcome. Imagine all the physical evidence the same, but Martin is alive and Zimmerman dead. His story is that some guy was following him, wouldn't talk to him, suddenly he was attacked (Mr Martin, where are your injuries? Here on my knuckles, he never managed to lay a hand on me. How could he attack you if he never laid a hand on you?) and had to kill his attacker. You think THAT would stand up in court?

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Looks like Zimmerman is going to be acquitted..... - 09/07/2013 08:54:18 PM 1182 Views
I've figured this since the first week of testamony - 09/07/2013 09:06:59 PM 823 Views
I'm not sure someone being punished excessively is a good reason to mimic it - 09/07/2013 10:26:51 PM 586 Views
Excellent response, you covered everything I would have wanted to. *NM* - 10/07/2013 06:48:15 PM 289 Views
Thanks *NM* - 11/07/2013 01:35:15 AM 238 Views
Nutty reply by you as usual.....but..... - 09/07/2013 10:36:45 PM 656 Views
coming from your side of the aisle, I take that as a compliment. :-) - 11/07/2013 12:18:07 AM 796 Views
All right, let's talk about Yoda, this so-called 'wise' Jedi Grandmaster - 11/07/2013 01:34:57 AM 542 Views
Yep that Yoda. - 11/07/2013 02:26:03 AM 694 Views
It is a time-honoured US criminal justice tradition after all - 10/07/2013 10:06:35 PM 511 Views
The prosecution has been terrible in this case. It reminds me of the OJ prosecution. - 10/07/2013 10:58:50 PM 528 Views
When one person is on top of another beating him up..... - 11/07/2013 04:22:02 AM 587 Views
As a person who has been trying not to follow the case - 11/07/2013 04:07:01 PM 591 Views
Yeah, but you are forgetting something rather important - 11/07/2013 06:41:54 PM 613 Views
I am sorry but that is not quite true - 11/07/2013 07:10:19 PM 618 Views
Go review the timeline it is available online. *NM* - 11/07/2013 07:22:43 PM 230 Views
I am having a hard time believing that you can justifiably kill in a fight you started and lost - 11/07/2013 09:51:00 PM 499 Views
It is a tough legal argument but it can occur. - 12/07/2013 01:24:11 AM 524 Views
Home defense is an entirely separate situation than an aggressor losing a fight - 12/07/2013 10:13:42 PM 577 Views
It really isn't too hard to find, if you bother to look. - 12/07/2013 11:41:35 PM 1026 Views
I understand the theory, and military court is not quite the same as common law, yes? - 12/07/2013 11:52:54 PM 580 Views
MIlitary courts are also based on common law, just shifted for military realities - 12/07/2013 11:59:24 PM 594 Views
Re: MIlitary courts are also based on common law, just shifted for military realities - 13/07/2013 12:21:06 AM 599 Views
I will stipulate to everything you just said, but disagree with your conclusion. - 13/07/2013 12:58:10 AM 577 Views
There is no call for self-defense for a fight you initiated yourself - 11/07/2013 06:34:46 PM 598 Views
Once again, following someone doesn't justify assault. - 11/07/2013 07:34:09 PM 488 Views
Thank god the perpetrator got shot - 11/07/2013 07:48:12 PM 540 Views
And once again, when did Zimmerman identify himself as the neighbourhood watchman? - 11/07/2013 08:59:28 PM 578 Views
He was under no legal obligation to do so. - 12/07/2013 01:39:45 AM 551 Views
He was also under no legal obligation to follow Martin, despite being neighbourhood watchman - 12/07/2013 05:15:00 PM 700 Views
Except that there is exactly zero evidence to support your scenario. - 12/07/2013 06:00:05 PM 612 Views
If you don't care one way or the other, why are you arguing so strongly for acquittal? - 12/07/2013 10:06:00 PM 534 Views
You covered several areas... - 12/07/2013 11:28:18 PM 557 Views
A couple of points... - 13/07/2013 12:15:47 AM 608 Views
I have to disagree about the manslaughter - 13/07/2013 12:45:32 AM 491 Views

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