Community Messageboard: Sigh. :P by Legolas

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Sigh.

Legolas Send a noteboard - 03/10/2009 02:46:27 PM

And can we stop calling it the Lisbon Treaty and call it by it's real name, The European Constitution, since that is exactly what it is rebranded, and the 'misinformation' starts there. No guv, it's not the constituton anymore, honest, so you don't need to vote on it honest...nothing to do with the fact it was rejected by France, Netherlands and was easily going to be defeated in many other countries. Just trust us your glorious leaders to do the right thing, we'll ratify it without you, run along now *pat, pat*.

It's not the European Constitution - they scrapped the symbolic parts that would've made the EU more like a nation-state, the anthem and all that. The rest is largely the same, yes. As for trusting your glorious leaders to do the right thing, most countries just don't have a political culture that constantly asks voters their opinion in referendums. The UK isn't Switzerland. If you trust your government to do everything else without referendums, including other things that a majority of the people are against judging by polls, I don't see why suddenly they aren't allowed to do this.

Oh wait, Irelands constitution means they still need to vote on it, um...oh dear they said no...bad Ireland, we'll take everything away from you if you do not say the right thing...vote again, say Yes, that's an order.

Nothing was going to be "taken away" from Ireland if they didn't say the right thing, that's nonsense. But yes, the Irish no did of course put the EU in an impossible position, there wasn't really anywhere else to go than trying again.

Brown will lose his job over this, amongst other things, but by then it'll be to late for the UK. And the anger that causes in this country is phenomenal.

If the UK really wants to secede from the EU, well, guess what? It can't now, but this Lisbon Treaty you so hate will provide a secession clause. In the meantime it would be nice if the UK didn't block the progress of the entire EU the way Klaus is doing.

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Ireland accepts Lisbon Treaty Legolas - 03/10/2009 02:09:29 PM 1481 Views

A sad sad day for europe Wibble - 03/10/2009 02:13:53 PM 910 Views

Please tell me you didn't vote UKIP at least.

Legolas - 03/10/2009 02:21:38 PM 932 Views

I've voted for them before yes. Wibble - 03/10/2009 02:28:31 PM 943 Views

Sigh.

Legolas - 03/10/2009 02:46:27 PM 985 Views

United States of Europe! Here we come.

Rebekah - 03/10/2009 02:25:16 PM 955 Views

Let's hope you won't, because you most certainly would vote no. Legolas - 03/10/2009 02:27:48 PM 920 Views

We don't get a vote, because we would not say the right thing. So fuck democracy. Wibble - 03/10/2009 02:29:25 PM 856 Views

So I've just found out on Wikipedia. Craziness. *NM* Rebekah - 03/10/2009 02:31:04 PM 491 Views

Please explain this to me Danu - 03/10/2009 11:04:32 PM 793 Views

Yes, that's obviously it... Geoff - 04/10/2009 12:57:39 AM 1206 Views

Why does Tim think No is the right choice? Danu - 03/10/2009 11:02:53 PM 882 Views

She never said that Floffe - 03/10/2009 11:22:43 PM 966 Views

Okay, why? Danu - 04/10/2009 12:05:43 AM 807 Views

Hehe Rebekah - 04/10/2009 10:06:40 AM 850 Views

I'm not sure this is an entirely fair analysis. Werthead - 03/10/2009 09:18:31 PM 846 Views

Sort of. Inigo Montoya - 04/10/2009 02:19:56 AM 972 Views

What would you say is the most important effect and/or overall significance of the treaty? *NM* Burr - 03/10/2009 02:30:29 PM 390 Views

Mostly making the EU less unwieldy. Legolas - 03/10/2009 02:37:06 PM 885 Views

Thanks! *NM* Burr - 03/10/2009 02:42:04 PM 398 Views

Why on earth would you want to let Turkey in? Tom - 03/10/2009 04:05:24 PM 926 Views

Several reasons. Legolas - 03/10/2009 04:41:59 PM 1016 Views

There are a few others. Werthead - 03/10/2009 09:03:40 PM 847 Views

I'm sorry, but I don't really see a lot of progress Tom - 04/10/2009 03:16:42 AM 838 Views

Then you aren't looking hard enough.

Legolas - 04/10/2009 07:20:39 AM 1019 Views

It's the old carrot-on-a-stick technique. Tim - 04/10/2009 12:34:08 PM 834 Views

AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*NM* ßelals Girl - 03/10/2009 06:15:56 PM 419 Views

What? You're a Eurosceptic American?

*NM* Legolas - 03/10/2009 09:14:56 PM 397 Views

It also puts David Cameron in a difficult position Werthead - 03/10/2009 09:11:41 PM 911 Views

Good point. Legolas - 03/10/2009 09:28:03 PM 933 Views

Re: Good point. Werthead - 03/10/2009 09:47:58 PM 963 Views

I'm torn and I have some questions Danu - 03/10/2009 10:53:40 PM 1040 Views

Re: I'm torn and I have some questions Legolas - 04/10/2009 07:45:35 AM 1057 Views

hallelujah! Stephen - 04/10/2009 09:49:39 PM 948 Views

Indeed. Elaine - 05/10/2009 02:00:29 PM 895 Views

I am pleased by this. Here is hoping for an effective elected leader. The Shrike - 05/10/2009 03:20:36 PM 916 Views

Yeah, that's true... Legolas - 05/10/2009 03:42:29 PM 865 Views

So the European parliament will not elect the leader? The Shrike - 05/10/2009 05:08:25 PM 893 Views

Er, that's news to me... but let's look it up. Legolas - 05/10/2009 05:14:09 PM 846 Views

I would have rejected any treaty that would not let me elect a representative or The Shrike - 05/10/2009 06:14:46 PM 867 Views

Honestly, that would never be on the table. Legolas - 05/10/2009 06:37:25 PM 851 Views

So would most of europe. Wibble - 05/10/2009 07:22:41 PM 831 Views

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<quote id="28957">
<quote id="28950">And can we stop calling it the Lisbon Treaty and call it by it's real name, The European Constitution, since that is exactly what it is rebranded, and the 'misinformation' starts there. No guv, it's not the constituton anymore, honest, so you don't need to vote on it honest...nothing to do with the fact it was rejected by France, Netherlands and was easily going to be defeated in many other countries. Just trust us your glorious leaders to do the right thing, we'll ratify it without you, run along now *pat, pat*.</quote>
It's not the European Constitution - they scrapped the symbolic parts that would've made the EU more like a nation-state, the anthem and all that. The rest is largely the same, yes. As for trusting your glorious leaders to do the right thing, most countries just don't have a political culture that constantly asks voters their opinion in referendums. The UK isn't Switzerland. If you trust your government to do everything else without referendums, including other things that a majority of the people are against judging by polls, I don't see why suddenly they aren't allowed to do this.  
<quote id="28950">Oh wait, Irelands constitution means they still need to vote on it, um...oh dear they said no...bad Ireland, we'll take everything away from you if you do not say the right thing...vote again, say Yes, that's an order.</quote>
Nothing was going to be "taken away" from Ireland if they didn't say the right thing, that's nonsense. But yes, the Irish no did of course put the EU in an impossible position, there wasn't really anywhere else to go than trying again. 
<quote id="28950">Brown will lose his job over this, amongst other things, but by then it'll be to late for the UK. And the anger that causes in this country is phenomenal.</quote>
If the UK really wants to secede from the EU, well, guess what? It can't now, but this Lisbon Treaty you so hate will provide a secession clause. In the meantime it would be nice if the UK didn't block the progress of the entire EU the way Klaus is doing. 
</quote>

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