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Re: Good point. Werthead Send a noteboard - 03/10/2009 09:47:58 PM
But considering that if the Czech Republic doesn't ratify it, that is an enormous slap in the face of the entire EU, all pressure will be brought to bear on Klaus to cave in - the Czech government has already assured that "it's not a matter of yes or no like in Ireland, it's a matter of when".


Oh yes, there's nothing that Klaus can do. The constitutional court has thrown out the appeal against the treaty once and they'll almost certainly do it again. The BBC was talking about Poland signing the treaty in days and the Czech Republic in weeks. None of the analysts they had on could see how the Czechs could hold off much longer than that and certainly no way they can hold out until the British election in May or June.

Yeah, I imagine the current Euroscepticism in Britain - I saw polls giving a 55% for secession if it should come to a referendum on that - would cool down fast if people stopped and thought about it, and if Labour, the Lib Dems and elements of the Conservatives campaigned against it. And when it comes down to it, I don't think Cameron really wants that, either. Still, he'll be able to point the finger at the EU and blame them for not being able to get the Lisbon referendum... I don't think the voters would blame him so much.


Euroscepticism in Britain is mainly down to it being completely off the debating table for most of the duration of the Labour government. Labour just avoided talking about it and because the Tories were divided (less so today, perhaps, but certainly back in the day when the pro-Europe Kenneth Clarke had more widespread support) they also didn't want to talk about it, whilst the Lib Dems have been unapologetically pro-Europe (and seen their popularity go up since 1997 as well). UKIP have dynamically seized the ground of the "No to Europe!" campaign and pushed it against light opposition, leading to the current Eurosceptic climate.

But that's more down to a lack of debate on the issue recently. A competently-managed campaign could turn things around.

I think he'll just blame the EU and - rightly - say that his hands are tied and he can't do the referendum.


I'm not too sure about this. The BBC just had several Tories on, including an MEP, and they all seemed quite happy that there will be a referendum no matter what, and if it will be a referendum on the overall future of Britain in Europe, then bring it on. If Cameron says no to that, that lands him in hot water with his own party and could cost him votes from people backing him purely because of the Tories' commitment to a referendum (although they'd be unlikely to go to Labour or the Lib Dems instead, but maybe UKIP).

Looking at the British news today, I'm surprised that there does seem to be this belief that Lisbon could have a serious impact on the British general election next year, especially if the economic recovery gets underway in earnest and that is no longer the sole issue of the election.
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Ireland accepts Lisbon Treaty - 03/10/2009 02:09:29 PM 1242 Views
A sad sad day for europe - 03/10/2009 02:13:53 PM 712 Views
Please tell me you didn't vote UKIP at least. - 03/10/2009 02:21:38 PM 725 Views
I've voted for them before yes. - 03/10/2009 02:28:31 PM 748 Views
Sigh. - 03/10/2009 02:46:27 PM 795 Views
United States of Europe! Here we come. - 03/10/2009 02:25:16 PM 760 Views
Let's hope you won't, because you most certainly would vote no. - 03/10/2009 02:27:48 PM 715 Views
We don't get a vote, because we would not say the right thing. So fuck democracy. - 03/10/2009 02:29:25 PM 644 Views
So I've just found out on Wikipedia. Craziness. *NM* - 03/10/2009 02:31:04 PM 392 Views
Please explain this to me - 03/10/2009 11:04:32 PM 600 Views
Yes, that's obviously it... - 04/10/2009 12:57:39 AM 985 Views
Why does Tim think No is the right choice? - 03/10/2009 11:02:53 PM 665 Views
She never said that - 03/10/2009 11:22:43 PM 754 Views
Okay, why? - 04/10/2009 12:05:43 AM 615 Views
Hehe - 04/10/2009 10:06:40 AM 653 Views
I'm not sure this is an entirely fair analysis. - 03/10/2009 09:18:31 PM 638 Views
Sort of. - 04/10/2009 02:19:56 AM 741 Views
What would you say is the most important effect and/or overall significance of the treaty? *NM* - 03/10/2009 02:30:29 PM 290 Views
Mostly making the EU less unwieldy. - 03/10/2009 02:37:06 PM 667 Views
Thanks! *NM* - 03/10/2009 02:42:04 PM 303 Views
Why on earth would you want to let Turkey in? - 03/10/2009 04:05:24 PM 730 Views
Several reasons. - 03/10/2009 04:41:59 PM 807 Views
There are a few others. - 03/10/2009 09:03:40 PM 647 Views
I'm sorry, but I don't really see a lot of progress - 04/10/2009 03:16:42 AM 627 Views
Then you aren't looking hard enough. - 04/10/2009 07:20:39 AM 821 Views
It's the old carrot-on-a-stick technique. - 04/10/2009 12:34:08 PM 646 Views
AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *NM* - 03/10/2009 06:15:56 PM 324 Views
What? You're a Eurosceptic American? *NM* - 03/10/2009 09:14:56 PM 301 Views
It also puts David Cameron in a difficult position - 03/10/2009 09:11:41 PM 703 Views
Good point. - 03/10/2009 09:28:03 PM 731 Views
Re: Good point. - 03/10/2009 09:47:58 PM 734 Views
I'm torn and I have some questions - 03/10/2009 10:53:40 PM 835 Views
Re: I'm torn and I have some questions - 04/10/2009 07:45:35 AM 790 Views
hallelujah! - 04/10/2009 09:49:39 PM 736 Views
Indeed. - 05/10/2009 02:00:29 PM 698 Views
I am pleased by this. Here is hoping for an effective elected leader. - 05/10/2009 03:20:36 PM 683 Views
Yeah, that's true... - 05/10/2009 03:42:29 PM 661 Views
So the European parliament will not elect the leader? - 05/10/2009 05:08:25 PM 679 Views
Er, that's news to me... but let's look it up. - 05/10/2009 05:14:09 PM 646 Views
I would have rejected any treaty that would not let me elect a representative or - 05/10/2009 06:14:46 PM 670 Views
Honestly, that would never be on the table. - 05/10/2009 06:37:25 PM 641 Views
So would most of europe. - 05/10/2009 07:22:41 PM 653 Views

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