Active Users:443 Time:17/06/2025 03:58:26 AM
I'm sorry, but I don't really see a lot of progress Tom Send a noteboard - 04/10/2009 03:16:42 AM
Historically, Turkey has not been half-European. European populations were oppressed by Turkish janissaries and governors for centuries, yes, but that hardly counts. That's like trying to say Japan should be able to join a Chinese organization because they are "half Chinese" by virtue of their historical occupation of large parts of China.

To point to Albania, Kosovo and Bosnia and say that their example shows why Turkey should be let in is likewise twisting history. Let's not forget that those nations are predominantly Muslim today as a RESULT of Turkish occupation. Furthermore, do you see any of those states joining the EU any time soon? I don't.

As for "progress", I just don't see it. Turkey is still killing Kurds and calling them "terrorists" to justify the killings. Progress would mean that they stop trying to do to the Kurds what they did to the Armenians. That, coincidentally, brings me to my next point. I have seen ZERO progress on recognizing the Armenian genocide. Intellectuals who dare to speak out are charged with "insulting Turkishness" and the US President caved in to Turkish pressure and broke a campaign promise to recognize the Armenian Genocide. The Turks can't even bring themselves to call it a genocide - it's just the "Events of 1915" to them.

The only thing "impressive" about what Turkey (and its military secular establishment) has done is that it has let an Islamist party gain power and let the nation move one step closer to implementing an Iranian-style theocracy.

Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.

ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius

Ummaka qinnassa nīk!

*MySmiley*
This message last edited by Tom on 04/10/2009 at 03:17:05 AM
Reply to message
Ireland accepts Lisbon Treaty - 03/10/2009 02:09:29 PM 1242 Views
A sad sad day for europe - 03/10/2009 02:13:53 PM 711 Views
Please tell me you didn't vote UKIP at least. - 03/10/2009 02:21:38 PM 724 Views
I've voted for them before yes. - 03/10/2009 02:28:31 PM 747 Views
Sigh. - 03/10/2009 02:46:27 PM 794 Views
United States of Europe! Here we come. - 03/10/2009 02:25:16 PM 758 Views
Let's hope you won't, because you most certainly would vote no. - 03/10/2009 02:27:48 PM 714 Views
We don't get a vote, because we would not say the right thing. So fuck democracy. - 03/10/2009 02:29:25 PM 643 Views
So I've just found out on Wikipedia. Craziness. *NM* - 03/10/2009 02:31:04 PM 392 Views
Please explain this to me - 03/10/2009 11:04:32 PM 600 Views
Yes, that's obviously it... - 04/10/2009 12:57:39 AM 985 Views
Why does Tim think No is the right choice? - 03/10/2009 11:02:53 PM 663 Views
She never said that - 03/10/2009 11:22:43 PM 752 Views
Okay, why? - 04/10/2009 12:05:43 AM 613 Views
Hehe - 04/10/2009 10:06:40 AM 653 Views
I'm not sure this is an entirely fair analysis. - 03/10/2009 09:18:31 PM 636 Views
Sort of. - 04/10/2009 02:19:56 AM 739 Views
What would you say is the most important effect and/or overall significance of the treaty? *NM* - 03/10/2009 02:30:29 PM 290 Views
Mostly making the EU less unwieldy. - 03/10/2009 02:37:06 PM 665 Views
Thanks! *NM* - 03/10/2009 02:42:04 PM 303 Views
Why on earth would you want to let Turkey in? - 03/10/2009 04:05:24 PM 728 Views
Several reasons. - 03/10/2009 04:41:59 PM 806 Views
There are a few others. - 03/10/2009 09:03:40 PM 646 Views
I'm sorry, but I don't really see a lot of progress - 04/10/2009 03:16:42 AM 625 Views
Then you aren't looking hard enough. - 04/10/2009 07:20:39 AM 819 Views
It's the old carrot-on-a-stick technique. - 04/10/2009 12:34:08 PM 645 Views
AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *NM* - 03/10/2009 06:15:56 PM 323 Views
What? You're a Eurosceptic American? *NM* - 03/10/2009 09:14:56 PM 301 Views
It also puts David Cameron in a difficult position - 03/10/2009 09:11:41 PM 701 Views
Good point. - 03/10/2009 09:28:03 PM 731 Views
Re: Good point. - 03/10/2009 09:47:58 PM 732 Views
I'm torn and I have some questions - 03/10/2009 10:53:40 PM 834 Views
Re: I'm torn and I have some questions - 04/10/2009 07:45:35 AM 788 Views
hallelujah! - 04/10/2009 09:49:39 PM 734 Views
Indeed. - 05/10/2009 02:00:29 PM 697 Views
I am pleased by this. Here is hoping for an effective elected leader. - 05/10/2009 03:20:36 PM 680 Views
Yeah, that's true... - 05/10/2009 03:42:29 PM 660 Views
So the European parliament will not elect the leader? - 05/10/2009 05:08:25 PM 679 Views
Er, that's news to me... but let's look it up. - 05/10/2009 05:14:09 PM 645 Views
I would have rejected any treaty that would not let me elect a representative or - 05/10/2009 06:14:46 PM 669 Views
Honestly, that would never be on the table. - 05/10/2009 06:37:25 PM 639 Views
So would most of europe. - 05/10/2009 07:22:41 PM 653 Views

Reply to Message