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Et tu quoque, Cannoli? Joel Send a noteboard - 27/02/2017 09:31:59 PM

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Other than that, can't complain. Ironic that RAFO is shutting down at the same time: In wotmanias final days, if anyone had told me every conservative in the US would be singing the praises of JULIAN ASSANGE in 8 years time, I would have said they were delusional.

Who actually is doing this? Accepting the services one provides does not equate to unilateral support or praise. This is typical of the hysterical mob mentality of the left,

Well, I did not pull that out of my rear: I said conservatives are praising their erstwhile nemeses Assange and Russia simply because the US administration they are attacking just happens to be an infinitely more heinous democratic one because I have seen many people DOING it. Use your new FB account very much and so will you; nothing is quite so nauseating and mystifying as die-hard Reagan Republicans posting shirtless Putin pics and either cackling gleefully at helping him screw the US government or getting treasonously misty-eyed and envious over a Russian leader so much "better" than their own.
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Then again, if anyone had told me when I was a kid that US conservatives would someday be worshiping at the altar of a KGB officer, I would have said the same.

Again with the hyperbole and self-contradictions. According to the left, the GOP under Trump is both embracing isolationism AND "worshipping at the altar" of a foreign leader. In Joel's mind there is no difference between outright worship, and not wanting to fight a war over which slavic dialect is spoken by the kleptocrats who rule former portions of the Czar's old realm. Worshipping at the altars of Soviet leaders, who actually deployed the KGB was something the left had NO problem with, when they spoke of their intention to convert us by force to their own totalitarian political system, and had thousands of nuclear weapons pointed at us. Now that they aren't doing that, but are openly doing a fraction of what went on all the time in the beloved USSR, suddenly petulant derision of one of the most powerful world leaders is not only in fashion, but a required auto da fe, for which you are condemned if you lack sufficient zeal.

Speaking of a "hysterical mob mentality" there is a huge difference between merely "not wanting to fight a war" with the latest Autocrat of All the Russias and CHEERING HIS ATTACKS ON ONES OWN GOVERNMENT. Namely, that one is mere isolationism, the other treason (or at least sedition.) You do understand that Dem defeats are only default GOP wins if the country still EXISTS, right? I mean, even the architects of MAD were swift enough to figure out that much, which puts them head and shoulders above roughly half the US right now.

There is a reason the left speaks so much of "herding cats," but even if there were not, few but naive would-be iconoclasts in a dorm room have EVER "worship[ed] at the altar of Soviet leaders." For generations, a key distinction between actual communists and Western socialists has been that socialist are deeply committed to genuine free democracy, while communists merely parrot policies from the most recent International or Politburo. But now that the KGBs screwing a US government so infinitely worse (i.e. Democratic,) the latest KGB junta chief is "one of the most powerful world leaders." So was Stalin—but that was a BAD thing (especially for Russians.) Speaking of which:

ALL those Russian nukes are STILL pointed DIRECTLY at our heads; that NEVER changed. Because neither did the Russian GOVERNMENT.


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Politics makes strange bedfellows indeed, because apparently a great many "conservatives" will eagerly sign on with even the Soviets just for the sake of screwing the Democrats.

The Russians are not the Soviets. In point of fact, they were the primary VICTIMS of the Soviets! How many Americans died in the gulags? How many Americans were shot in the basement of the NKVD headquarters? How many Americans were subjected to Stalinesque show trials? Most of those people were Russians.

No kidding; had I meant "Russians" rather than "Soviets" I would have said so.
View original postIn Joel-history though, anyone who disliked the idea of shedding blood in defense of the Soviet Union or giving them more guns to use on their own people and butter to grease the treads of T-34s, was NO DIFFERENT from a swastika-embracing hard-core Nazi, so it is not surprising that he is still drawing these absurd lines of comparison.

No, I perceive that nuance; the problem is that your critiques of allying with the Soviets against Hitler (a Faustian Pact if there ever was one, and the reason we wound up with senior Nazi intelligence officers designing the nascent CIA) routinely descend into naked hero worship of Mussolini and Hitler. In other words, simply expressing reservations or even opposition to climbing into bed with the Soviets is reasonable; trying to start a modern day Bund, however, is American Naziism.
View original postAsking whether or not subscribers to Soviet-subsidized publications and members of Soviet-controled organizations should be working in important positions in the national security apparatus was a dark night of tyranny and fascism in America, but pointing out information being publicaly disseminated about the nominee of the party for whcih 90% of American journalists admit to voting, because it was obtained by computer users who were probably not even born when the Soviet Union fell, is the WORST SORT of treason.

More hyperbole: The problem with McCarthy was not that he went after the precious few Soviet agents who managed to infiltrate our government, but that accused virtually EVERYONE of being a Soviet agent despite utter absence of even flimsy evidence in most cases. That, and the fact that the only reason McCarthy got elected to the Senate in the first place is because of campaign donations from a Wisconsin union that was a known KGB front: Redbaiter, heal thyself!
View original postRussia is not our enemy.

Dnieper ain't just a river in Ukraine....
View original postRussia has never been our enemy, and was frequently our co-belligerent.

If by "frequently" you mean "twice," sure. Maybe three times if we count the multi-national Western intervention in the Russian Civil War, which you presumably condemn for the same reasons as fighting the Nazis alongside Russia: Because whether Lenin or the Czars slaughter millions of their own people is neither Americas problem nor responsibility.
View original postThe fact that it was once occupied by a primary enemy of the United States does not change that fact, especially because we never fought a war against the power that occupied Russia, either. By Joel's mentality, France is, or should be, our lifelong enemy, because they too, were occupied by a hostile power with a dispicable ideology.

Please do not be disingenous: France actually HAS been our ally on MANY occasions, most notably including when the US was CREATED, which it would NOT have been without the French navy preventing the British from landing reinforcements at Yorktown. However despicable the ideology of any particular past French government was or was not, we NEVER fought a war against it. And, most importantly of all, none of those awful ideologies are driving the CURRENT French government: Russias been run for 20 years (so far...) by a former East German KGB chief who said he WEPT WHEN THE BERLIN WALL FELL, and STILL HAS ALL ITS NUKES POINTED AT OUR HEADS.

How many French nukes are pointed at the US...?


View original postIn Joel's mind, acceptable actions are subverting officials of another nation's national security and foreign policy apparatus.

No, that is precisely what I am condemning, particularly when done by a hostile foreign power in an attempt to cripple our ability to resist its advances, up to and including our own houses.
View original postUnthinkable acts of interference and sabotage include writing articles in which you state economic policies of which Joel disapproves! Because that is nothing less than a deliberate attempt to crash the economy the country for whom you are making those suggestions!

I sincerely have NO idea what you are talking about here; McCarthy certainly was not having a detached academic economic debate when he sent people to prison, nor was Russia when it hacked into the voter registries in over TWENTY STATES. Was it not Stalin himself who said, "who votes does not count; all that matters is who counts the votes"?
View original postPublishing the subversive actions of public servants, and the conspiracies to force an unethical self-serving termagant on a party, not because she's the actual choice of the party, but because it's her "turn" and she is owed favors, is unconscionable foreign interference, and renders elections illegitimate. But asking if someone's demonstrated sympathies and allegiances with an evil form of government might not translate into a conflict of interests in the performance of their government office is the height of evil.

What "subversive actions"? Doing exactly what the Republican Secy. of State Hillary succeeded TOLD HER IN WRITING TO DO? I mean, OK, fine he denies it, but maybe he should not have SIGNED the SOB if he wanted anyone to believe that denial. "Demonstrated sympathies and allegiance"? You mean like publicly encouraging and promising to reward Russia for hacking the US election, then going on TV after inauguration and excusing Russias habitual assassinations on the grounds that "what, you think this country's so innocent?"
View original postAnything and everything Russia does is wrong, bad and illegitimate, and their open preference for the candidate who does not favor war with their country over one who does, should obviate the American election...because the guy in charge USED TO SPY ON EAST GERMANY! Eastern Germany is pretty much the homeland of every evil in the 20th Century. The country was settled and founded by a crusading order Germanic conquistadors, was generally ruled by Prussia, the nation that all but invented insane militarism and which Napoleon snarked was hatched out of a cannonball. It was the heartland of the German Empire and the capital region of the Third Reich. It was in Eastern Germany that the decision was made to invade Belgium, setting off a chain reaction of events that resulted in two World Wars, a Great Depression and the Holocaust. It was in Eastern Germany that the decision was made to inflict Lenin on the Russian people. East Germany was at the forefront of Olympic cheating scandals and the development of the surveillance state. Hell, it was the birthplace of Angela Merkel! Keeping an eye on East Germany is pretty much a basic necessity for the protection civilization, but Joel seems to equate it with child rape. Hahaha, just kidding. Child rape isn't that bad, and defending it is a noble and heroic action, even if it requires smearing the reputation of a child to earn that paycheck! Joel SUPPORTS those who defend child rapists, villifies the political opponent of said defender, and condemns those who defend the notion of not launching a fanatical crusade for the destruction of a man who used to spy on East Germany.

When a judge assigns a lawyer to a case, that lawyer is legally obligated to take it—especially when she begs the judge point blank to let her bail and he tells her point blank she cannot. In Hitlers Germany, Mussolinis Italy and Putins Russia it is no big deal; trials are optional, and token defenses not only acceptable, but often encouraged. Yet the US Constitution entitles every AMERICAN to a fair trial (for now....)

Meanwhile, "at least Putin is not Merkel" sounds a lot like "at least Trump is not Hillary." You could learn a lot from Merkels life experiences: She grew up in the very East Germany Putin and the rest of the KGB brutally subjugated for half a century. Thus you no longer need worry about Prussian militarism, because the Seven Bridges of Koenigsberg are now the Seven Bridges of Kaliningrad, complete with a modern Polish Corridor separating the rest of Russia from an exclave it has essentially transformed into a huge naval military base rivaling even that in Crimea. Y'know, the huge Crimean naval military base Russia INVADED to secure? Poland is a NATO member, so if they do the same there it is WW III, and Russias official military policy for such an event is to launch a preemptive tactical nuclear strike to prevent the US and the rest of NATO landing vastly superior conventional forces on Russias doorstep in the Baltic States.


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In the end, what we have learned—what they have revealed—is that they were always fine with gulags, genocide, murdering journalists and protesters in the streets and invading armies driving tanks over neighboring sovereign states:

That stuff is not going on anywhere near what it did when the left was lining up to sing the perpetrators' praises, and give each other medals for making us see the Soviets as people. Which was the praise Hillary Clinton's husband gave to lifelong liberal Democrat and segregationist at a ceremony honoring said Soviet-sympathizer. Being fine with invading armies driving tanks over neighboring sovereign states is explicitly set forth in the Monroe Doctrine as US policy. And they were talking about REAL countries, not failed third-world states that were invented in 1919 and resurrected in the 1990s, along arbitrary borders imposed in the interim by SOVIET administrators.

"Life-long segregationist"? Pretty much NO ONE believes that, because it easy to tell which Dixiecrats were LIFETIME segregationists: They are the ones who BECAME REPUBLICANS in the wake of the VRA, CRA of 1964 and 24th Amendment. It should have been a great day for the US: After a centurys delay, Dems finally got on the right side of history and hopped onboard the civil rights bandwagon—too bad Republicans hopped OFF barely a DECADE after they got on, accepting a century of Jim Crow in exchange for being allowed to steal the election of 1876. It is no coincidence the Solid South remains as solid as ever, but solidly REPUBLICAN. Just more to quoque: "It is OK that we are racists now, because ya'll were racists 50 years ago." Because coming to the light is just as bad as turning to the dark, right?
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Publicly owned industries were the only "tyranny" the right really ever minded.
Yep. No one is trying to do any of the other stuff in the US, and the behavior of reporters and minority groups subsequent to the election, as well as the operations of a certain neighboring sovereign state makes them all seem somewhat attractive at this point.

Oh, what a relief; I could have SWORN Republican legislatures in EIGHTEEN STATES were trying to make First Amendment assembly and petition for redress of grievances, while the president himself declares the free press "enemies of the people." Refresh my memory; "enemy of the people" was a phrase coined by Jefferson or Lincoln, not Hitler or Stalin, right?
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We are about to all get a harsh reminder that, contrary to revisionist history, the "merger of state and corporate power" is in no sense "leftist."

Because that was not a thing that happened under Obama, or Clinton, or Roosevelt?

Correct, it was NOT.
View original postBecause Donald Trump is a conservative? He's a conservative in the sense that Leon Trotsky was...despised by some on the left, and thus labeled a right-winger.

Name three people who EVER called Trotsky "right wing." Stalin probably called him a "reactionary" or "counterrevolutionary," and Molotov probably parroted that, but that is still 1) BS and 2) only two people.
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Lucky we are part of the religious, ethnic and sexual majority, huh? Oh... well, enjoy the bed you made for all us to lie in then.
Yep! And the bed was made because and your ilk have long since exhausted your credibility as well as your capacity for objectivity or rationality, or making coherent arguments. You've inured everyone to your social justice hysterics, and when faced with a candidate who simply did not care what you called him, were unable to make a cogent case against him. Conservatives and libertarians are not enjoying Trump's win, but we are positively reveling in every complaint, cry of anguish and tear shed by sanctimonious entitled left wingers.

Misery loves company, but "my ilk" does not push the Identity Politics crap; ask moondog how much crap I have been giving him about for how long.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
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Love still can't be coerced.
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LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 27/02/2017 at 09:32:23 PM
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