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Exactly; just look at these guys: Joel Send a noteboard - 24/11/2009 05:38:33 PM
Compared to telling the EPA to alter or even not publish scientific studies the Bush administration didn't like, playing with data so it doesn't look like the warming is increasing AS MUCH is small potatoes. Which is basically the reason Christie Todd-Whitman resigned as EPA Chairman.

Let's be clear: IMHO monkeying with data so it looks more compelling is wretched science and damages the credibility of scientists doing it, no argument. And that's not only a liberal saying it, but I'm paraphrasing Nate Silver at FiveThirtyEight when I do it, and he's pretty far left, too (if you hit the site he actually has a copy of the memo in question posted for context. ) However, just because one Canadian is convicted of murder doesn't mean someone can say, "SEE?!!! I've told you for YEARS all the Canadians were killers, but no one believed me: Now there's IRREFUTABLE PROOF1111" Not to mention that when he's talking about "hid[ing] the decline" they're not talking about a decline in TEMPERATURES, but in the RATE at which temperatures naetheless continued to RISE in the period they studied. You can make a very good case that they fudged the numbers to overstate their case for global warming, because it seems like in that one case they did, and it's deplorable. You cannot make the case global warming isn't happening in the long term, and it's hard to take seriously anyone who does.

And... global temperatures falling for eleven years? Either you're wrong or NASA is, and I'm betting on you; they have more corroborating evidence then you've presented. It goes up and down, but the overall long term trend is up, and if you look at their plots of mean temperatures for given periods rather than against individual time points the line is a lot less erratic. And has a stronger upward trend. You're claims strike me as in the same vein as saying, "You global warming people are nuts; look how much cooler it is now than it was in June!" Unfortunately, Fall doesn't disprove global warming.
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No, I am sure global warming is just a myth. </sarcasm> - 24/11/2009 01:23:50 PM 925 Views
That ice is not melting - everyone knows temperatures aren't going up. - 24/11/2009 01:30:12 PM 609 Views
Precisely. - 24/11/2009 01:31:17 PM 581 Views
*NM* - 24/11/2009 01:52:03 PM 348 Views
They say that it's vanishing because it's melting... - 24/11/2009 01:49:24 PM 576 Views
*NM* - 24/11/2009 02:20:00 PM 371 Views
While I believe that the climate is changing - 24/11/2009 02:10:53 PM 891 Views
Not to excuse tomfoolery of any kind (fun word )... - 24/11/2009 02:14:41 PM 524 Views
You never deviate from serious and exact wording in your private e-mails? *NM* - 24/11/2009 02:21:22 PM 349 Views
I think this is a bit more than a deviation. - 24/11/2009 02:33:49 PM 778 Views
Sales figures are a good example - 24/11/2009 02:48:44 PM 558 Views
Re: I think this is a bit more than a deviation. - 24/11/2009 02:49:30 PM 692 Views
Climategate is a big scandal.....very damaging to the AGW kool-aid drinkers. - 24/11/2009 03:53:27 PM 542 Views
Exactly; just look at these guys: - 24/11/2009 05:38:33 PM 850 Views
Greenland was much less icy back in the days when it was first settled. - 24/11/2009 02:29:50 PM 649 Views
From what I understand - 24/11/2009 02:45:04 PM 702 Views
No one seriously argues against climate change. The myth is called the greenhouse effect - 24/11/2009 02:31:30 PM 565 Views
Yes they do. Well, depending how seriously you take trzaska2000 and others of his ilk... - 24/11/2009 02:53:33 PM 558 Views
I believe copy-right was aiming a bit higher than a specific person. You're not supposed to do that - 24/11/2009 03:17:31 PM 541 Views
But I was just using him as an example - to show that some people who think global warming a myth - 24/11/2009 03:27:13 PM 546 Views
I am not as crazy as Joel!!! - 24/11/2009 03:48:33 PM 698 Views
You keep telling yourself that - 24/11/2009 04:31:01 PM 588 Views
trzaska is way beyond joel on the madness-meter. - 24/11/2009 03:53:09 PM 666 Views
Please explain..... - 24/11/2009 03:56:51 PM 678 Views
I wouldn't know where to begin. - 24/11/2009 04:20:38 PM 677 Views
Not for a European, but for an American..... *NM* - 24/11/2009 04:29:59 PM 341 Views
bull you're middle of the road. - 24/11/2009 06:11:52 PM 526 Views
Define "middle of the road" then..... *NM* - 24/11/2009 06:25:59 PM 345 Views
About a hundred meters to the left of you. *NM* - 24/11/2009 06:59:49 PM 373 Views
That comment is irrelevant without a frame of reference..... - 24/11/2009 07:24:26 PM 573 Views
Re: That comment is irrelevant without a frame of reference..... - 24/11/2009 07:25:18 PM 530 Views
I'd agree that you're middle of the road as far as policy goes... - 24/11/2009 08:10:59 PM 526 Views
That's pretty accurate.....I do enjoy colorful rhetoric! - 25/11/2009 04:14:25 PM 511 Views
I'm not convinced - 24/11/2009 04:34:50 PM 575 Views
That's not exactly what I said. - 24/11/2009 06:06:44 PM 738 Views
I never said anyone is crazy. That is up to individual rafonauts' doctors. *NM* - 24/11/2009 04:02:43 PM 332 Views
You did open a helluva can of worms though, deliberately or not. - 24/11/2009 06:10:57 PM 657 Views
I was ridiculing myself for pointing to you at that earlier post a few days ago *NM* - 24/11/2009 06:22:04 PM 246 Views
Fair enough then. - 24/11/2009 06:24:36 PM 538 Views
Re: You're not supposed to do that - 24/11/2009 06:14:58 PM 518 Views
I submit myself to your punishment - 24/11/2009 06:24:26 PM 681 Views
It's cool, man. - 24/11/2009 06:31:17 PM 544 Views
Silly snoop.....my beef is with AGW, not GW in general..... - 24/11/2009 03:46:15 PM 590 Views
You should be clearer then - 24/11/2009 04:30:04 PM 514 Views

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