I'm perfectly happy to discuss her positions; I just think Huckabee does a better job of it.
Joel Send a noteboard - 09/02/2010 10:26:54 AM
I don't need a reminder what Kepler's Laws are or what the proper firing technique is for a rifle, I certainly might want a reminder to talk about them. This is her Q&A session after a speech, the whole thing is on youtube, it's actually rather humorus because you can see her look at her hand repeatedly if you're watching for it, but it's farily unnoticeable if you're not thinking about it. She usually says something pertaining to one of those things immediatly after.
These things happen in public speaking, they are very common. Look, all through SOTU Biden was a bit fidgety and about ten minutes into I realized he just seemed that way because he was reading Obama's teleprompter and reacting to jokes or comments a moment before Obama said them. It was actually rather humorous once I noted it, but hardly a big deal. During Brown's speech, the 'we can do this moment' is funny as all heck, but you have to be really reaching out of genuine malice to think he meant they could insert a curling iron up Coakley's nether region. You also have to know the context for that statement to understand why someone said that specific thing, it wasn't a random nasty comment, it has to do with some specific thing that went on in her previous job involving a case where that horrific act was done to a child.
When you're used to looking for these things they pop up noticeably, one of the reason I prefer radio or text format's, the video often distracts me from the content. A public speaker should know better than to tap their pen during a debate for instance, but many do it anyway because their stressed and distracted and it's a habit. It's good for a chuckle but it's not really a big deal, like Obama bowing to people, he's a tall guy and he obviously considers it a respectful gesture, he needs to stop doing it, but other than it's humor value it's hardly an indication of some mass deficiency in his qualificaiton to be POTUS, like Bush Sr's tendency to vomit on foriegn leaders. You start looking for it you'll notice all sorts of tells, like people who sip from a glass of water before answering questions because they aren't just parched but use it as a way to buy a moment of time without seeming to stall. I do it with cigarettes. Going 'uh... um...' for five seconds comes off stupid whereas taking a sip of water or a long drag on a cigarette seems dignified. I don't see what the hassle is all about on this and it just seems like petty sniping.
In some ways you're right that this isn't ad hominem because you're not using personal attacks to disprove her arguments, your not even talking about her arguments. No one does, they never discuss her points, they just sneer and abuse, it's outright dismissal via abuse. These type of comments don't even rise to the low level of ad hominem. "I don't consider Gov. Palin to be a foriegn policy expert" as a counter to something she said about Afghanistan is ad hominem, most of the crap thrown at Palin is just nasty slurs. "Well, Mr. Brokaw, in response to that I just like to say my opponent is a drooling incompetent" is not ad hominem.
These things happen in public speaking, they are very common. Look, all through SOTU Biden was a bit fidgety and about ten minutes into I realized he just seemed that way because he was reading Obama's teleprompter and reacting to jokes or comments a moment before Obama said them. It was actually rather humorous once I noted it, but hardly a big deal. During Brown's speech, the 'we can do this moment' is funny as all heck, but you have to be really reaching out of genuine malice to think he meant they could insert a curling iron up Coakley's nether region. You also have to know the context for that statement to understand why someone said that specific thing, it wasn't a random nasty comment, it has to do with some specific thing that went on in her previous job involving a case where that horrific act was done to a child.
When you're used to looking for these things they pop up noticeably, one of the reason I prefer radio or text format's, the video often distracts me from the content. A public speaker should know better than to tap their pen during a debate for instance, but many do it anyway because their stressed and distracted and it's a habit. It's good for a chuckle but it's not really a big deal, like Obama bowing to people, he's a tall guy and he obviously considers it a respectful gesture, he needs to stop doing it, but other than it's humor value it's hardly an indication of some mass deficiency in his qualificaiton to be POTUS, like Bush Sr's tendency to vomit on foriegn leaders. You start looking for it you'll notice all sorts of tells, like people who sip from a glass of water before answering questions because they aren't just parched but use it as a way to buy a moment of time without seeming to stall. I do it with cigarettes. Going 'uh... um...' for five seconds comes off stupid whereas taking a sip of water or a long drag on a cigarette seems dignified. I don't see what the hassle is all about on this and it just seems like petty sniping.
In some ways you're right that this isn't ad hominem because you're not using personal attacks to disprove her arguments, your not even talking about her arguments. No one does, they never discuss her points, they just sneer and abuse, it's outright dismissal via abuse. These type of comments don't even rise to the low level of ad hominem. "I don't consider Gov. Palin to be a foriegn policy expert" as a counter to something she said about Afghanistan is ad hominem, most of the crap thrown at Palin is just nasty slurs. "Well, Mr. Brokaw, in response to that I just like to say my opponent is a drooling incompetent" is not ad hominem.
The difference in my mind between Obama reading a teleprompter for a whole speech and Palin needing her hand to remind her she wants to cut taxes is that there's a lot more detail in the former, and it's easy to forget stuff. "Cut taxes, drill ANWAR and Go, America!" is simple enough I only had to check her notes once, and I haven't been campaigning on them for two years straight.
I don't consider Palin a foreign policy expert for the same reason I didn't consider Bush one: They'd never had cause to look at it much until they ran for national office. I don't consider Obama a foreign policy expert for a similar reason, not so much that he's never been to the US Senate as that he didn't even finish his first term before running for President. His extensive personal travel abroad mitigates that a little, just as having Bush 41 for a dad did for Bush 43, but not enough. If you want to parse it that much, fine: Palin isn't necessarily stupid, but a disproportionate number of things she says are (like claiming live within 1000 miles of the Bering Strait made her knowledgeable about foreign policy; that was far more plausible when Bush said it about Mexico. )
It's not about the issues; there have been plenty of staunch conservatives in the Republican Party who were far more knowledgeable, experienced and articulate than the ones embraced by the fundie right. Huckabee and Bob Dole are good examples, but you didn't see the people they represented flock to their banner because instead of stuttering a mumbled response to tough questions then waving an American flag they actually knew their stuff. Believed their own hype enough they didn't need a cheat sheet to remember what it was. I doubt you'll see Mike Huckabee turning up at a rally for a Republican Governor who tried to force every school girl in the state to take the (less than a year old) HPV vaccine, then shoved toll roads paid for in full by bond initiatives down the states throat, but that's what Palin was doing before she made the tea party where this video was shot. Perry's not even going to get renominated (which is actually bad, because Hutchison is a lot more like Huckabee than Palin when it comes to qualifications) but evidently he and the former Governor of Alaska don't realize that yet.
It's not that no one takes the far right seriously, it's that the constituency keeps ignoring candidates like Dole and Huckabee for gaffe machines like Quayle, Bush 43 and Palin. "Unfit for Command" indeed....

Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
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Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 09/02/2010 at 10:29:40 AM
Palin reads Cheat Notes.
08/02/2010 12:43:02 AM
- 1424 Views
Is it really worse than reading answers on a teleprompter? sorry, I see no big deal here. *NM*
08/02/2010 01:02:49 AM
- 252 Views
yes yes it is. a teleprompter is subtle
08/02/2010 01:22:17 AM
- 593 Views
a teleprompter is not subtle
08/02/2010 02:25:46 PM
- 522 Views
staring openly and blatantly at your hand is? *NM*
08/02/2010 03:09:25 PM
- 322 Views
I think if anyone else had done the dame thing we wouldn't even had heard about
08/02/2010 06:13:44 PM
- 523 Views
Yes for what the notes were
08/02/2010 12:44:35 PM
- 557 Views
he is calling her content free while attacking her in such a content free manner?
08/02/2010 02:50:04 PM
- 551 Views
It's good the media still hounds her. I don't want her to be a candidate. *NM*
08/02/2010 01:20:21 AM
- 282 Views
This only obscures the rational reasons for duly decrying her political popularity. Moooooooo. *NM*
08/02/2010 03:19:45 AM
- 326 Views
I disagree, I think it underscores it.
08/02/2010 03:39:57 AM
- 524 Views
Or they might believe that a far left liberal
08/02/2010 04:16:51 AM
- 542 Views
Calling someone who needs a cheat sheet for their talking points stupid isn't an ad hominem, IMHO.
08/02/2010 12:13:36 PM
- 537 Views
soory but your wrong, again
08/02/2010 02:23:31 PM
- 496 Views
You shouldn't need reminders of your major themes after two years pushing them.
08/02/2010 02:55:22 PM
- 528 Views
I used to work in a call center and had a note to remind me to talk slower
08/02/2010 05:54:25 PM
- 652 Views
I don't hate her, and I think most liberals love her.
09/02/2010 10:45:25 AM
- 649 Views
way to play the pregant daughter card
09/02/2010 03:06:37 PM
- 557 Views
*shrugs* If you're going to suggest sex ed is harmful, unnecessary and promotes promiscuity...
10/02/2010 08:34:16 AM
- 623 Views
so if you don't support the liberal agenda your family is fair game for attack? nice to you admit it
10/02/2010 06:26:30 PM
- 556 Views
Um, no, if you're going to demand everyone follow your advice it better not be disastrous for you.
11/02/2010 05:29:01 AM
- 542 Views
Do you have anb example of when she demanded everyone follow her advice?
11/02/2010 05:33:17 AM
- 592 Views
Honestly, her sex ed position seems so muddled to me it's hard to say
11/02/2010 06:50:39 AM
- 745 Views
That's a bit silly
08/02/2010 08:40:25 PM
- 690 Views
I'm perfectly happy to discuss her positions; I just think Huckabee does a better job of it.
09/02/2010 10:26:54 AM
- 710 Views
Well, let's discuss some of these points
09/02/2010 07:13:33 PM
- 715 Views
Re: Well, let's discuss some of these points
10/02/2010 09:15:04 AM
- 748 Views
Re: Well, let's discuss some of these points
10/02/2010 06:49:51 PM
- 814 Views
Ironically, Palin seems to agree this is different than using a teleprompter for a speech.
11/02/2010 09:05:19 AM
- 709 Views
Again, two seperate things
11/02/2010 09:51:15 PM
- 525 Views
Agreed, but Palin and other Republicans, not I, drew the comparison.
15/02/2010 01:02:25 PM
- 673 Views
Just to get the obligatory Feinstein comment out of the way...
15/02/2010 11:43:42 PM
- 735 Views
Hadn't heard, actually.
19/02/2010 06:58:50 AM
- 650 Views
Re: Hadn't heard, actually.
19/02/2010 08:32:11 AM
- 648 Views
Ah.
23/02/2010 09:55:45 PM
- 725 Views
Re: Ah.
24/02/2010 01:32:34 AM
- 672 Views
Yeah, I think we've reached an understanding if not agreement.
01/03/2010 03:51:49 AM
- 666 Views
Re: Yeah, I think we've reached an understanding if not agreement.
01/03/2010 11:46:24 PM
- 881 Views
Re: Yeah, I think we've reached an understanding if not agreement.
05/03/2010 12:11:48 AM
- 754 Views
Random Title
05/03/2010 02:49:59 AM
- 683 Views
Re: Random Title
15/03/2010 05:37:22 AM
- 599 Views
Re: Random Title
15/03/2010 09:17:53 PM
- 913 Views
I disagree. For all we know she has a learning disability. "Disability" does not equal "stupid".
09/02/2010 03:23:24 PM
- 610 Views
A possibility I hadn't considered, true, and sorry if I gave offense.
10/02/2010 08:25:52 AM
- 736 Views
oh yes, and the right never uses ad hominem
08/02/2010 03:56:42 PM
- 491 Views
I do see as the primary focus like I see from the left these days *NM*
08/02/2010 06:15:22 PM
- 337 Views
could you rephrase? you seem to be missing a noun or something in there. *NM*
08/02/2010 07:57:19 PM
- 283 Views
misisng a couple actually
08/02/2010 08:04:35 PM
- 520 Views
Touch typing is easier, at least to learn, if you don't try to read it at the same time, FYI.
10/02/2010 09:24:33 AM
- 575 Views

Really how many times can you rememeber a Bush press sec openly ridicule people in a press confrence
10/02/2010 06:28:57 PM
- 465 Views
Good point; all they used to do was have the VP say opponents helped terrorists.
11/02/2010 05:33:08 AM
- 516 Views
one is about actions ands the other is about personal attacks
05/03/2010 02:19:38 PM
- 480 Views
True, one is about what Palin DID and the other is just characterizing opposition as treason.
15/03/2010 04:39:45 AM
- 497 Views
This is petty and also rather ignorant
08/02/2010 03:59:40 AM
- 688 Views
so you're saying you're as dumb as sarah palin?
08/02/2010 10:55:00 AM
- 502 Views

In other news liberals can't get over someone being popular they don't agree with
08/02/2010 04:12:19 AM
- 664 Views
It's completely unprofessional
08/02/2010 08:27:47 AM
- 521 Views
yeah, she should have had them inscribed into her nail polish instead...
08/02/2010 10:55:43 AM
- 496 Views
why?
08/02/2010 02:29:44 PM
- 544 Views
You know that's a good question
08/02/2010 05:19:10 PM
- 507 Views
maybe you are just projecting
08/02/2010 06:15:57 PM
- 512 Views
well what is the association we have with notes on hands?
08/02/2010 07:58:41 PM
- 536 Views
or people on the far left are being grossly disingenuous
08/02/2010 08:18:06 PM
- 650 Views
dude, only posted it because it was funny
08/02/2010 08:43:55 PM
- 506 Views
so you like to point at people and laugh and can't understand why others would object
08/02/2010 11:24:37 PM
- 591 Views
Who cares? She's hot. *NM*
08/02/2010 03:06:58 PM
- 247 Views
Much ado about nothing. She was just making sure she didn't forget anything.
09/02/2010 02:00:56 AM
- 487 Views
I don't like the woman at all, but this is just silly. Who cares? *NM*
11/02/2010 10:11:17 PM
- 248 Views