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Re: Yes, but the difference was I knew it was hyperbole ßelals Girl Send a noteboard - 23/02/2010 07:38:54 PM
and I was just trying to make the point. Change from other cultures is what allows a culture to grow and develop. I do think it is absurd to demand that someone be demanded to become everything the french stereotype demands they be. Who defines what is "french" anyways? The french people, of course. But the French people are no longer solely Western European and they haven't been for a while. Who is anyone to turn to someone who's Muslim of immigrant descent, but has 3 generations of family in France but still holds to their Muslim cultural values, and tell them "You're not French."


They aren't French. They are not culturally French. They are not ethnically French. They live in France, but are not related to the native population (unless they've interbred), and they do not share a culture with the native population. They remain both ethnically and culturally Turkish or whatever nation they've emigrated from.

The idea that because you are born in a certain region, that makes you a full member of the cultural and ethnic group native to the region is flawed. Countries of immigrants, like the US and others, use this to define membership, but old world countries have historically been defined differently. They are cultural/ethnic/lingusitic nations, not just geographic, and therefore the idea of "If you're born here, that makes you fully French/German/Norwegian/Spanish, whatever doesn't work out as well as the same concept in the US. Thus, problems can arise. I think too many Americans are trying to apply our concept of nationality to nations that have a rather different background.
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French fast food chain goes halal - 19/02/2010 06:34:59 AM 1582 Views
that isn't unusual at all...I don't see the big deal - 19/02/2010 06:42:58 AM 558 Views
...how is it "discriminatory?" - 19/02/2010 06:49:24 AM 1029 Views
just as a note - 19/02/2010 01:06:30 PM 652 Views
(It wasn't a reference to Hinduism) - 19/02/2010 05:29:40 PM 649 Views
yah. that's hinduism - 19/02/2010 05:52:41 PM 723 Views
Makes sense - 19/02/2010 06:12:49 PM 668 Views
Not necessarily prejudiced or bigots - 19/02/2010 12:03:17 PM 963 Views
Not sure that works - 19/02/2010 12:58:20 PM 718 Views
it's not discrimination in the slightest - 19/02/2010 01:13:03 PM 838 Views
That was my point - 19/02/2010 01:22:55 PM 748 Views
sorry - 19/02/2010 01:29:11 PM 678 Views
No problem - 19/02/2010 02:02:46 PM 677 Views
Re: Not sure that works - 19/02/2010 01:44:27 PM 676 Views
Re: Not sure that works - 19/02/2010 02:15:37 PM 828 Views
Re: Not sure that works - 19/02/2010 02:33:30 PM 916 Views
dude. Every time anyone makes a choice, it's discrimination. - 19/02/2010 02:40:18 PM 743 Views
Re: dude. Every time anyone makes a choice, it's discrimination. - 19/02/2010 03:22:14 PM 841 Views
yes, how dare a shop specialize - 19/02/2010 03:44:59 PM 655 Views
Indeed *NM* - 19/02/2010 03:53:28 PM 354 Views
...I don't think that's a thing? - 19/02/2010 05:31:52 PM 691 Views
To the contrary - 19/02/2010 07:07:40 PM 732 Views
the restaurant does not have 100% halal food. - 19/02/2010 07:40:52 PM 683 Views
It was more of an answer to beetnemesis's hypothetical comment - 19/02/2010 08:18:58 PM 825 Views
I thought that they were still serving fish, at least? *NM* - 20/02/2010 02:24:21 AM 414 Views
hahahaha - 20/02/2010 01:01:07 AM 777 Views
Re: hahahaha - 20/02/2010 04:10:31 AM 710 Views
Interesting - 20/02/2010 04:01:17 AM 709 Views
Keep in mind that France doesn't have remotely near as many fastfood restaurants as the US... - 19/02/2010 01:23:49 PM 904 Views
but what's wrong with eating halal meat? - 19/02/2010 01:33:17 PM 739 Views
Not a theologian, are we? - 19/02/2010 02:06:38 PM 826 Views
but is it the jews and observant christians complaining? - 19/02/2010 02:30:58 PM 675 Views
I've no clue - 19/02/2010 02:46:53 PM 859 Views
why would they be serving pork at a fast food anyways? - 19/02/2010 02:53:36 PM 659 Views
Well normally bacon is considered pork - 19/02/2010 03:07:45 PM 666 Views
Dude, it's France. They don't do English breakfasts. - 19/02/2010 03:19:48 PM 829 Views
American Breakfast, the english stole it from us - 19/02/2010 03:36:42 PM 762 Views
They put salt on their fries here, tons of it in fact... - 19/02/2010 03:48:06 PM 797 Views
Re: They put salt on their fries here, tons of it in fact... - 19/02/2010 04:16:22 PM 810 Views
Not a theologian, are we? - 19/02/2010 02:31:17 PM 687 Views
from what we discussed in Meat Sciene - 19/02/2010 02:35:59 PM 740 Views
Oh? - 19/02/2010 02:42:57 PM 753 Views
you could probably argue that it is less humane - 19/02/2010 02:54:32 PM 649 Views
Re: Not a theologian, are we? - 19/02/2010 04:03:41 PM 904 Views
Re: Not a theologian, are we? - 19/02/2010 04:51:14 PM 805 Views
Re: Not a theologian, are we? - 19/02/2010 04:54:26 PM 870 Views
Re: Not a theologian, are we? - 19/02/2010 05:03:28 PM 654 Views
Re: Not a theologian, are we? - 19/02/2010 06:10:50 PM 669 Views
Upper tip - 19/02/2010 06:14:06 PM 611 Views
Re: but what's wrong with eating halal meat? - 19/02/2010 02:33:14 PM 782 Views
+1 - 19/02/2010 07:07:36 PM 675 Views
It is a MacDonalds not public service provider - 19/02/2010 08:11:36 PM 669 Views
Re: Keep in mind that France doesn't have remotely near as many fastfood restaurants as the US... - 19/02/2010 01:57:15 PM 807 Views
That's what I was thinking too. - 19/02/2010 06:04:02 PM 829 Views
You think the reasons are as objective as that ? - 19/02/2010 02:24:36 PM 620 Views
I wouldn't exactly call the reasons I named "objective", myself. - 19/02/2010 02:37:56 PM 747 Views
Haha, yeah - 19/02/2010 07:24:00 PM 661 Views
Simply put : Many are afraid France is being taken over by the Muslims. - 19/02/2010 02:14:19 PM 774 Views
Re: Simply put : Many are afraid France is being taken over by the Muslims. - 19/02/2010 05:02:18 PM 699 Views
Are you refering to something specific ? - 19/02/2010 07:18:38 PM 716 Views
Re: Are you refering to something specific ? - 19/02/2010 07:21:35 PM 613 Views
In a sense that's what blocked the inclusion of Turkey into the EU. - 19/02/2010 07:26:51 PM 624 Views
Re: In a sense that's what blocked the inclusion of Turkey into the EU. - 19/02/2010 07:30:33 PM 651 Views
The question there is what's pretext and what's actual reason. - 19/02/2010 08:53:44 PM 683 Views
Re: The question there is what's pretext and what's actual reason. - 19/02/2010 08:55:53 PM 734 Views
Why are such politicians automatically "crazy" - 19/02/2010 10:16:53 PM 780 Views
yep. *NM* - 20/02/2010 12:09:56 PM 324 Views
Really can't see why people would get so worked up - 19/02/2010 03:57:37 PM 610 Views
No big deal.. - 19/02/2010 04:16:08 PM 698 Views
i can't see why it matters that they did. i think it's great. *NM* - 19/02/2010 05:23:44 PM 388 Views
So, what is the difference between Halal Beef and normal beef? *NM* - 19/02/2010 07:06:21 PM 316 Views
the way it is killed. *NM* - 19/02/2010 07:26:02 PM 410 Views
I wonder how teh Saudis or Iranians would react... - 19/02/2010 08:51:11 PM 671 Views
most halal foods would always qualify as kosher, i believe. - 20/02/2010 02:26:49 AM 613 Views
Nope. But it does work the other way around. *NM* - 20/02/2010 04:50:26 AM 333 Views
fair enough, then *NM* - 20/02/2010 05:56:00 AM 482 Views
yupp, kosher counts as halal, halal is not kosher though *NM* - 20/02/2010 12:55:30 PM 435 Views
So let me get this straight... - 20/02/2010 08:42:04 AM 803 Views
wow. first of all FRANCE is changing nothing - 20/02/2010 06:28:27 PM 784 Views
I think you missed his point - 20/02/2010 10:12:18 PM 673 Views
There are many answers one could give, but the most basic one is quite simple... - 20/02/2010 10:20:14 PM 796 Views
And yet having come of their own free will... - 20/02/2010 11:11:51 PM 666 Views
Way to read half a post. I am impressed. - 21/02/2010 12:10:39 AM 669 Views
It always starts small. - 21/02/2010 12:32:11 AM 640 Views
Awesome, you figured out their master plan!! - 21/02/2010 02:06:27 AM 738 Views
Like I said... - 21/02/2010 08:43:32 AM 693 Views
and really... in this case it's a private enterprise we're talking about - 21/02/2010 12:55:27 AM 640 Views
exactly. *NM* - 21/02/2010 02:06:57 AM 445 Views
Oh I know, don't get me wrong. I was trying to clarify *NM* - 21/02/2010 04:13:19 AM 362 Views
I didn't miss it, I just thought it wasn't worth noting. - 21/02/2010 02:11:14 AM 897 Views
Re: wow. first of all FRANCE is changing nothing - 20/02/2010 10:13:12 PM 844 Views
Yes, i'm sure there is no other restaurant in that whole area. - 21/02/2010 02:04:29 AM 793 Views
that's not the point. - 21/02/2010 08:46:14 AM 717 Views
dude. your 'THEY" did not do anything. - 21/02/2010 03:01:48 PM 771 Views
So if your French every restaurant should only be allowed to serve what you want served? - 22/02/2010 07:18:00 PM 667 Views
I don't think French society should be forced to consume Islamic food. - 23/02/2010 01:31:03 AM 660 Views
No one is forcing anyone to do anything. - 23/02/2010 02:47:56 AM 717 Views
Sure they are. - 23/02/2010 03:05:12 AM 694 Views
well they apparently still have 354 of that particular restaurant - 23/02/2010 03:20:07 AM 650 Views
Don't you get it? - 23/02/2010 03:51:09 AM 628 Views
Actually they're not ragheads. - 23/02/2010 03:43:14 PM 639 Views
If you have a sarcasm meter, you might want to switch it on. *NM* - 23/02/2010 05:37:41 PM 310 Views
Indeed, 354 throughout the whole of France, which actually isn't that many. - 23/02/2010 03:42:30 PM 676 Views
how many French people starved to death before McDonalds opened? - 23/02/2010 04:30:32 PM 697 Views
Millions - 23/02/2010 04:41:23 PM 653 Views
Huh. - 23/02/2010 06:10:17 PM 649 Views
They are not forced to do anything - 23/02/2010 04:41:35 PM 632 Views
So Muslims should be forced to eat French food because the French are lazy to open more restaurants? - 23/02/2010 04:43:13 AM 592 Views
well don't you see? - 23/02/2010 12:41:40 PM 696 Views
Re: well don't you see? - 23/02/2010 05:02:16 PM 634 Views
I agree with you. *NM* - 23/02/2010 05:10:53 PM 302 Views
This is meant to be an edit... - 23/02/2010 05:14:23 PM 700 Views
I agree, Bekah, but it's not like there's not a middle ground - 23/02/2010 05:25:30 PM 641 Views
It's the sheer numbers that are worrisome - 23/02/2010 06:25:17 PM 789 Views
That assumes a great deal - 23/02/2010 06:52:41 PM 760 Views
Re: That assumes a great deal - 23/02/2010 08:00:28 PM 792 Views
Very true. Test case: Lebanon - 24/02/2010 12:26:43 AM 641 Views
Really? - 24/02/2010 10:02:18 AM 631 Views
What he's referring to... - 24/02/2010 10:20:22 AM 811 Views
Oh that, that I knew with the political system - 24/02/2010 10:57:08 AM 632 Views
Re: This is meant to be an edit... - 23/02/2010 05:43:03 PM 848 Views
Well, biologically speaking, it is healthier for the gene pool. - 23/02/2010 06:55:11 PM 659 Views
"Propaganda"? Kind of exaggerating there... - 23/02/2010 07:48:39 PM 763 Views
How is it not propaganda? - 23/02/2010 08:31:12 PM 827 Views
I can certainly see your vitrol. Now I'm a bit confused though. - 23/02/2010 08:54:54 PM 673 Views
Re: I can certainly see your vitrol. Now I'm a bit confused though. - 23/02/2010 09:08:33 PM 1085 Views
your view point is idealistic, I think - 23/02/2010 09:24:08 PM 929 Views
I guess one would have to see the documentary to really judge. - 23/02/2010 08:58:47 PM 778 Views
The language really isn't the problem in France. - 23/02/2010 08:15:52 PM 789 Views
I will conceed that point - 23/02/2010 08:53:26 PM 774 Views
Oh yeah, definitely, re: your point about Americans *NM* - 23/02/2010 09:00:20 PM 319 Views
Our differing opinion does not make us wrong. or that you are. - 23/02/2010 09:07:38 PM 816 Views
I'm not dismissing the problem entirely. - 23/02/2010 09:03:50 PM 772 Views
Well. I wasn't necessarily specifying France. *NM* - 23/02/2010 09:48:44 PM 315 Views
But a lot of them were already in a part of France or had been born in a part of France - 23/02/2010 05:30:24 PM 666 Views
*gasp* There are no French Muslims!! - 23/02/2010 05:36:38 PM 788 Views
Or! - 24/02/2010 10:04:44 AM 875 Views
It's funny because it's true - Algeria was administratively a part of France, iirc. *NM* - 23/02/2010 07:51:17 PM 272 Views
It does make the situation more complicated - 24/02/2010 10:30:28 AM 702 Views
Why should you have to completely change who you are? - 23/02/2010 05:35:51 PM 641 Views
Yes, of course - 23/02/2010 05:48:10 PM 639 Views
Yes, but the difference was I knew it was hyperbole - 23/02/2010 07:01:49 PM 627 Views
Re: Yes, but the difference was I knew it was hyperbole - 23/02/2010 07:38:54 PM 776 Views
So they should be treated as less because they're immigrants? - 23/02/2010 07:45:16 PM 706 Views
They're not Turks, they're mostly from France's old colonies. - 23/02/2010 08:10:25 PM 635 Views
The French didn't seem to feel the need to go native when they were in Middle Eastern countries - 23/02/2010 05:55:28 PM 883 Views
What are you refering to? - 23/02/2010 06:00:45 PM 667 Views
Brush up on your history then - 23/02/2010 06:25:53 PM 695 Views
Thank you - 23/02/2010 06:34:19 PM 631 Views
I would think that simply having McDonalds there is a greater threat to French cultrue - 23/02/2010 06:52:34 PM 762 Views
This. well stated. *NM* - 23/02/2010 07:03:47 PM 308 Views
Why thank you *NM* - 23/02/2010 11:49:22 PM 302 Views
Many? - 23/02/2010 07:40:06 AM 699 Views
sorry I thought it was a restaurant - 23/02/2010 04:41:39 AM 651 Views

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