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Re: That assumes a great deal ßelals Girl Send a noteboard - 23/02/2010 08:00:28 PM
The US has had waves upon waves of immigrants of various nationalities, and we still have a similar "identity" to that we had before. I know it's a bit different for one of the long-established countries in Europe, but you have to assume not only will the immigrant population outnumber the native population, but that it will actively seek to overtake the culture and that the dominant controlling forces of the culture (pop cultures stars, chefs, politicians, etc...) will also become dominated by the immigrant group.


And for France to remain French, yuo would have to assume that those thing will NOT happen. Now, if we look at the fact that immigrants are outbreeding the French natives AND the fact that Muslims tend to be loyal to Islam and other muslims before the host country, I think that you do come up with a legitimate concern. That's not saying it will happen, just that it could and there are a lot of factors in its favor, therefore it is a legitimate concern. Sticking your fingers in your ears and looking the other way is therefore probably not a wise move for the French to do at this point in time if they want to preserve the culture of their own nation.

I'm not saying that these things will or won't happen, but I would personally rather side on the err of letting people be themselves. In fact, I rather believe everything would go a lot more smoothly if everyone just took a big deep breath and moved on with life.


And I would rather err on the side of keeping France French and stopping immigration for now.

Not caring about such things and "moving on with life" so long as it doesn't affect you personally is short-sighted and is what lets things sneak up on people. One day you might turn around from not caring and realize that things have changed enough that maybe you do care now, but there isn't anything you can do about it.

We have been culturally conditioned not to care (which is why I'm sure 3/4ths of this board is probably thinking I should be committed right now) but that doesn't mean that its right. We don't need to put up with anything and everything just so things will go "smoothly."
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French fast food chain goes halal Aisha - 19/02/2010 06:34:59 AM 1516 Views
that isn't unusual at all...I don't see the big deal LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 06:42:58 AM 507 Views
...how is it "discriminatory?" beetnemesis - 19/02/2010 06:49:24 AM 976 Views
just as a note LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 01:06:30 PM 600 Views
(It wasn't a reference to Hinduism) beetnemesis - 19/02/2010 05:29:40 PM 597 Views
yah. that's hinduism LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 05:52:41 PM 647 Views
Makes sense beetnemesis - 19/02/2010 06:12:49 PM 614 Views
Not necessarily prejudiced or bigots Insolitus - 19/02/2010 12:03:17 PM 903 Views
Not sure that works snoopcester - 19/02/2010 12:58:20 PM 665 Views
it's not discrimination in the slightest LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 01:13:03 PM 783 Views
That was my point snoopcester - 19/02/2010 01:22:55 PM 661 Views
sorry LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 01:29:11 PM 616 Views
No problem snoopcester - 19/02/2010 02:02:46 PM 607 Views
Re: Not sure that works Insolitus - 19/02/2010 01:44:27 PM 616 Views
Re: Not sure that works snoopcester - 19/02/2010 02:15:37 PM 771 Views
Re: Not sure that works Insolitus - 19/02/2010 02:33:30 PM 862 Views
dude. Every time anyone makes a choice, it's discrimination. LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 02:40:18 PM 690 Views
Re: dude. Every time anyone makes a choice, it's discrimination. Insolitus - 19/02/2010 03:22:14 PM 775 Views
yes, how dare a shop specialize LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 03:44:59 PM 602 Views
Indeed *NM* Insolitus - 19/02/2010 03:53:28 PM 328 Views
...I don't think that's a thing? beetnemesis - 19/02/2010 05:31:52 PM 641 Views
To the contrary Isaac - 19/02/2010 07:07:40 PM 680 Views
the restaurant does not have 100% halal food. LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 07:40:52 PM 625 Views
It was more of an answer to beetnemesis's hypothetical comment Isaac - 19/02/2010 08:18:58 PM 749 Views
I thought that they were still serving fish, at least? *NM* LadyLorraine - 20/02/2010 02:24:21 AM 389 Views
hahahaha Aisha - 20/02/2010 01:01:07 AM 710 Views
Re: hahahaha Isaac - 20/02/2010 04:10:31 AM 648 Views
Interesting beetnemesis - 20/02/2010 04:01:17 AM 653 Views
Keep in mind that France doesn't have remotely near as many fastfood restaurants as the US... Legolas - 19/02/2010 01:23:49 PM 844 Views
but what's wrong with eating halal meat? LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 01:33:17 PM 680 Views
Nothing per se, it's largely symbolic. I'm not sure how large the changes in the menu actually are. Legolas - 19/02/2010 01:42:54 PM 808 Views
Not a theologian, are we? Isaac - 19/02/2010 02:06:38 PM 769 Views
but is it the jews and observant christians complaining? LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 02:30:58 PM 603 Views
I've no clue Isaac - 19/02/2010 02:46:53 PM 797 Views
why would they be serving pork at a fast food anyways? LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 02:53:36 PM 597 Views
I checked the standard menu - other than one special burger with bacon, it's true there's no pork. *NM* Legolas - 19/02/2010 02:55:44 PM 311 Views
my point is how many fast food places have pork? LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 03:06:44 PM 601 Views
Well normally bacon is considered pork Isaac - 19/02/2010 03:07:45 PM 609 Views
Dude, it's France. They don't do English breakfasts. Legolas - 19/02/2010 03:19:48 PM 761 Views
American Breakfast, the english stole it from us Isaac - 19/02/2010 03:36:42 PM 708 Views
They put salt on their fries here, tons of it in fact... Legolas - 19/02/2010 03:48:06 PM 738 Views
Re: They put salt on their fries here, tons of it in fact... Isaac - 19/02/2010 04:16:22 PM 743 Views
Not a theologian, are we? snoopcester - 19/02/2010 02:31:17 PM 626 Views
from what we discussed in Meat Sciene LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 02:35:59 PM 687 Views
Oh? snoopcester - 19/02/2010 02:42:57 PM 704 Views
you could probably argue that it is less humane LadyLorraine - 19/02/2010 02:54:32 PM 586 Views
Re: Not a theologian, are we? lyringlas - 19/02/2010 04:03:41 PM 839 Views
Re: Not a theologian, are we? Isaac - 19/02/2010 04:51:14 PM 740 Views
Re: Not a theologian, are we? lyringlas - 19/02/2010 04:54:26 PM 810 Views
Re: Not a theologian, are we? Isaac - 19/02/2010 05:03:28 PM 579 Views
Re: Not a theologian, are we? lyringlas - 19/02/2010 06:10:50 PM 607 Views
Upper tip Isaac - 19/02/2010 06:14:06 PM 553 Views
Re: but what's wrong with eating halal meat? Sareitha Sedai - 19/02/2010 02:33:14 PM 733 Views
+1 The Shrike - 19/02/2010 07:07:36 PM 616 Views
It is a MacDonalds not public service provider random thoughts - 19/02/2010 08:11:36 PM 608 Views
Oh, and then there's something else, though I don't know if it's a factor here... Legolas - 19/02/2010 02:41:46 PM 637 Views
Re: Keep in mind that France doesn't have remotely near as many fastfood restaurants as the US... snoopcester - 19/02/2010 01:57:15 PM 744 Views
That's what I was thinking too. Lupine - 19/02/2010 06:04:02 PM 775 Views
You think the reasons are as objective as that ? AgentOrange - 19/02/2010 02:24:36 PM 571 Views
I wouldn't exactly call the reasons I named "objective", myself. Legolas - 19/02/2010 02:37:56 PM 687 Views
Haha, yeah AgentOrange - 19/02/2010 07:24:00 PM 603 Views
Simply put : Many are afraid France is being taken over by the Muslims. AgentOrange - 19/02/2010 02:14:19 PM 721 Views
Re: Simply put : Many are afraid France is being taken over by the Muslims. lyringlas - 19/02/2010 05:02:18 PM 639 Views
Are you refering to something specific ? AgentOrange - 19/02/2010 07:18:38 PM 648 Views
Re: Are you refering to something specific ? lyringlas - 19/02/2010 07:21:35 PM 557 Views
In a sense that's what blocked the inclusion of Turkey into the EU. AgentOrange - 19/02/2010 07:26:51 PM 570 Views
Re: In a sense that's what blocked the inclusion of Turkey into the EU. lyringlas - 19/02/2010 07:30:33 PM 601 Views
The question there is what's pretext and what's actual reason. Legolas - 19/02/2010 08:53:44 PM 628 Views
Re: The question there is what's pretext and what's actual reason. lyringlas - 19/02/2010 08:55:53 PM 684 Views
Why are such politicians automatically "crazy" ßelals Girl - 19/02/2010 10:16:53 PM 723 Views
yep. *NM* AgentOrange - 20/02/2010 12:09:56 PM 287 Views
Really can't see why people would get so worked up random thoughts - 19/02/2010 03:57:37 PM 558 Views
No big deal.. Kel - 19/02/2010 04:16:08 PM 639 Views
i can't see why it matters that they did. i think it's great. *NM* temeraire - 19/02/2010 05:23:44 PM 355 Views
So, what is the difference between Halal Beef and normal beef? *NM* MightyYT - 19/02/2010 07:06:21 PM 284 Views
the way it is killed. *NM* jh - 19/02/2010 07:26:02 PM 386 Views
Call me an obvious bigot and prejudiced then. I think the way they did this is bad. The Shrike - 19/02/2010 07:10:40 PM 659 Views
Having two sources of meat would raise prices even more beetnemesis - 19/02/2010 07:56:21 PM 611 Views
Not to mention the fact that anything served as halal would have to be cooked separately Floffe - 19/02/2010 10:55:06 PM 583 Views
I wonder how teh Saudis or Iranians would react... Dragonsoul - 19/02/2010 08:51:11 PM 619 Views
most halal foods would always qualify as kosher, i believe. LadyLorraine - 20/02/2010 02:26:49 AM 546 Views
Nope. But it does work the other way around. *NM* AgentOrange - 20/02/2010 04:50:26 AM 309 Views
fair enough, then *NM* LadyLorraine - 20/02/2010 05:56:00 AM 448 Views
yupp, kosher counts as halal, halal is not kosher though *NM* Aisha - 20/02/2010 12:55:30 PM 405 Views
So let me get this straight... Dragonsoul - 20/02/2010 08:42:04 AM 748 Views
wow. first of all FRANCE is changing nothing LadyLorraine - 20/02/2010 06:28:27 PM 722 Views
I think you missed his point beckstcw - 20/02/2010 10:12:18 PM 618 Views
There are many answers one could give, but the most basic one is quite simple... Legolas - 20/02/2010 10:20:14 PM 743 Views
And yet having come of their own free will... Dragonsoul - 20/02/2010 11:11:51 PM 598 Views
Way to read half a post. I am impressed. jh - 21/02/2010 12:10:39 AM 614 Views
It always starts small. Dragonsoul - 21/02/2010 12:32:11 AM 584 Views
Awesome, you figured out their master plan!! LadyLorraine - 21/02/2010 02:06:27 AM 672 Views
Like I said... Dragonsoul - 21/02/2010 08:43:32 AM 634 Views
and really... in this case it's a private enterprise we're talking about AgentOrange - 21/02/2010 12:55:27 AM 582 Views
exactly. *NM* LadyLorraine - 21/02/2010 02:06:57 AM 420 Views
Oh I know, don't get me wrong. I was trying to clarify *NM* beckstcw - 21/02/2010 04:13:19 AM 337 Views
I didn't miss it, I just thought it wasn't worth noting. LadyLorraine - 21/02/2010 02:11:14 AM 832 Views
Re: wow. first of all FRANCE is changing nothing Dragonsoul - 20/02/2010 10:13:12 PM 787 Views
Yes, i'm sure there is no other restaurant in that whole area. LadyLorraine - 21/02/2010 02:04:29 AM 742 Views
that's not the point. Dragonsoul - 21/02/2010 08:46:14 AM 655 Views
dude. your 'THEY" did not do anything. LadyLorraine - 21/02/2010 03:01:48 PM 709 Views
So if your French every restaurant should only be allowed to serve what you want served? random thoughts - 22/02/2010 07:18:00 PM 598 Views
I don't think French society should be forced to consume Islamic food. Dragonsoul - 23/02/2010 01:31:03 AM 601 Views
No one is forcing anyone to do anything. LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 02:47:56 AM 646 Views
Sure they are. Dragonsoul - 23/02/2010 03:05:12 AM 631 Views
well they apparently still have 354 of that particular restaurant LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 03:20:07 AM 593 Views
Don't you get it? LiterateDog - 23/02/2010 03:51:09 AM 574 Views
Actually they're not ragheads. Dragonsoul - 23/02/2010 03:43:14 PM 565 Views
If you have a sarcasm meter, you might want to switch it on. *NM* LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 05:37:41 PM 286 Views
Indeed, 354 throughout the whole of France, which actually isn't that many. Dragonsoul - 23/02/2010 03:42:30 PM 616 Views
how many French people starved to death before McDonalds opened? random thoughts - 23/02/2010 04:30:32 PM 637 Views
Millions Isaac - 23/02/2010 04:41:23 PM 586 Views
Huh. Sareitha Sedai - 23/02/2010 06:10:17 PM 590 Views
They are not forced to do anything snoopcester - 23/02/2010 04:41:35 PM 567 Views
So Muslims should be forced to eat French food because the French are lazy to open more restaurants? random thoughts - 23/02/2010 04:43:13 AM 540 Views
well don't you see? LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 12:41:40 PM 624 Views
Re: well don't you see? ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 05:02:16 PM 584 Views
I agree with you. *NM* Rebekah - 23/02/2010 05:10:53 PM 277 Views
This is meant to be an edit... Rebekah - 23/02/2010 05:14:23 PM 641 Views
I agree, Bekah, but it's not like there's not a middle ground LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 05:25:30 PM 580 Views
It's the sheer numbers that are worrisome ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 06:25:17 PM 720 Views
That assumes a great deal LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 06:52:41 PM 709 Views
Re: That assumes a great deal ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 08:00:28 PM 740 Views
Very true. Test case: Lebanon AgentOrange - 24/02/2010 12:26:43 AM 573 Views
Really? snoopcester - 24/02/2010 10:02:18 AM 578 Views
What he's referring to... Legolas - 24/02/2010 10:20:22 AM 744 Views
Oh that, that I knew with the political system snoopcester - 24/02/2010 10:57:08 AM 585 Views
Re: This is meant to be an edit... ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 05:43:03 PM 786 Views
Well, biologically speaking, it is healthier for the gene pool. LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 06:55:11 PM 604 Views
"Propaganda"? Kind of exaggerating there... Legolas - 23/02/2010 07:48:39 PM 689 Views
How is it not propaganda? ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 08:31:12 PM 766 Views
I can certainly see your vitrol. Now I'm a bit confused though. LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 08:54:54 PM 610 Views
Re: I can certainly see your vitrol. Now I'm a bit confused though. ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 09:08:33 PM 1020 Views
your view point is idealistic, I think LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 09:24:08 PM 883 Views
I guess one would have to see the documentary to really judge. Legolas - 23/02/2010 08:58:47 PM 713 Views
The language really isn't the problem in France. Legolas - 23/02/2010 08:15:52 PM 735 Views
I will conceed that point ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 08:53:26 PM 708 Views
Oh yeah, definitely, re: your point about Americans *NM* Legolas - 23/02/2010 09:00:20 PM 295 Views
Our differing opinion does not make us wrong. or that you are. LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 09:07:38 PM 762 Views
I'm not dismissing the problem entirely. LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 09:03:50 PM 723 Views
Well. I wasn't necessarily specifying France. *NM* Rebekah - 23/02/2010 09:48:44 PM 276 Views
But a lot of them were already in a part of France or had been born in a part of France snoopcester - 23/02/2010 05:30:24 PM 618 Views
*gasp* There are no French Muslims!! LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 05:36:38 PM 731 Views
Or! snoopcester - 24/02/2010 10:04:44 AM 812 Views
It's funny because it's true - Algeria was administratively a part of France, iirc. *NM* Legolas - 23/02/2010 07:51:17 PM 247 Views
It does make the situation more complicated snoopcester - 24/02/2010 10:30:28 AM 638 Views
Why should you have to completely change who you are? LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 05:35:51 PM 584 Views
Yes, of course ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 05:48:10 PM 575 Views
Yes, but the difference was I knew it was hyperbole LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 07:01:49 PM 571 Views
Re: Yes, but the difference was I knew it was hyperbole ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 07:38:54 PM 710 Views
So they should be treated as less because they're immigrants? LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 07:45:16 PM 649 Views
They're not Turks, they're mostly from France's old colonies. Legolas - 23/02/2010 08:10:25 PM 576 Views
The French didn't seem to feel the need to go native when they were in Middle Eastern countries random thoughts - 23/02/2010 05:55:28 PM 814 Views
What are you refering to? ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 06:00:45 PM 603 Views
Brush up on your history then random thoughts - 23/02/2010 06:25:53 PM 635 Views
Thank you ßelals Girl - 23/02/2010 06:34:19 PM 573 Views
I would think that simply having McDonalds there is a greater threat to French cultrue random thoughts - 23/02/2010 06:52:34 PM 710 Views
This. well stated. *NM* LadyLorraine - 23/02/2010 07:03:47 PM 281 Views
Why thank you *NM* random thoughts - 23/02/2010 11:49:22 PM 279 Views
They had Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, and for a while Lebanon and Syria. Legolas - 23/02/2010 08:00:08 PM 784 Views
Many? Floffe - 23/02/2010 07:40:06 AM 630 Views
sorry I thought it was a restaurant random thoughts - 23/02/2010 04:41:39 AM 583 Views
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