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You know, you really need to stop that habit of replying to every single paragraph. Legolas Send a noteboard - 24/02/2010 10:07:10 PM
It would make your posts a lot more readable - and probably more consistent as well. That goes for the endless Egwene rants as well as for this kind of post. :P

Good. We want you fighting each other. We don't care that you can't relax and enjoy one another's company - you are supposed to be working for US, not in the interests of getting along with your co-workers.

That is idiotic to say the least. If you don't want the Senate to do anything, abolish it. But having it, having it be so powerful, and then wanting it to function badly, that is idiotic. You seem to be advocating a fairly extreme case of cutting off your nose to spite your face - letting the budget deficit and all kinds of other problems spiral out of control just so you can keep up your petty resentment of the Senate. Because if the past few years have proved anything, it's that the Senate being dysfunctional doesn't stop it from spending money, perhaps even on the contrary. But it does stop it from working efficiently to control spending, or from tackling undeniable problems like the out-of-control health care costs in the best way they can find.

Let’s start with a simple proposal: why not have a monthly lunch of all 100 senators?

Yes, if only there was some way to get all 100 Senators in the same room together! :banghead: Don't they already get together, like every day that they are in session?!

Admittedly, a somewhat utopian-sounding and not very practical proposal - or one that would necessarily help much.


And what is wrong with legislators being beholden to their constituencies? That's us! If a Congressman has nothing to be ashamed of, he should not worry about negative ads.


I can only call that last sentence either idealistic and naive, or intentionally wrong. Since the former seems unlikely, I'll have to assume the latter: it's bullshit and you know it. Senators have to vote on so many amendments and bills, many of them compromises somehow, that one way or another they end up casting votes for a lot of things that can look bad out of perspective, and even for things that they're actually against but have to accept to obtain other things. Nothing's easier than finding some things like that and putting them in a negative ad. Every Congressman has to worry about negative ads, regardless of how good he is or how closely he tries to stick to his principles.

As for members being beholden to their constituencies, I think it's rather clear what he means, but then I wouldn't expect you to ever give anyone the benefit of the doubt if you have some way you can attack them on it instead. Obviously senators and Congressmen have a responsibility to defend the interests of their constituency, but when it leads to cases like Richard Shelby's a few weeks ago, who was blocking the appointment of dozens of officials in order to force concessions on some issue affecting his constituency, obviously the interests of the country as a whole are endangered.

Why should candidates not have to answer for their positions? What is wrong with this scenario? If he has to do it for Ford Motor Company or Microsoft, he has to do it for a PAC or anyone else with the money to get him to the table. Caveat emptor, and now we can.

So you want to see a Congress in which every Congressman follows the bidding of the company or organization that offers him the most money? Is that really what you're saying? That you want to go match your pockets with Boeing's?


In other words, control and censor speech. This man has three times sworn to preserve the Constitution of the United States which specifically guarantees the right to say whatever you want, particularly about the government. All that these proposed unconstitutional restrictions will do is hamper normal people who try to express their own views. You know the corporations with their entire law firms on retainer will be able to chart the best letter-obeying/spirit-defying path through whatever bureaucratic or regulatory hedge Congress tries to erect around the right to free expression of political beliefs or positions.

Oh really? Restrictions on how companies can spend money in the elections "hampers normal people who try to express their own views"? Am I to take it that your magical PAC with the impressively deep pockets of the previous paragraph is then going to become an incorporated company for the purpose of publishing attack ads, instead of doing them as a PAC?

I don't disagree that powerful corporations will do their best to evade whatever regulation Congress proposes, and to a certain extent they may succeed, though not to such an extent as to make the attempt pointless, I dare say. But it doesn't make any sense to whine that such regulation would limit the ability of "normal people" to express their views any further than said ability is already limited by the simple fact of their being one citizen out of 300 million.


What's wrong with a minority thwarting "progress." If it is really such a good thing, won't the minority pay for it in their re-election campaigns? This whole bit about the filibuster smacks of sheer petulence over his own ox being gored.

See above, really - this is just more of you being quite content to let the budget deficit spiral out of control and the country get into increasingly bad financial straits, just so you can feel morally superior and smug.

Hyperbole and nonsense, with nothing to support it. Things that truly threaten the country are smoothly working government bodies that can ramrod any legislation through over the objections of 40% of the elected officials therin.

See, this is what I mean when I talk about how you'd probably be more consistent if you didn't try to have a sneering comment on every paragraph of someone's post or article. Here you are complaining about how legislation can be passed when 40% of the elected officials disagree - in other words, advocating legislation that has broader support among the elected officials. Above, you were talking about how you wanted Congressmen to be fighting each other and certainly not cordially work together with the other party. You have to know what you want. Do you want the parties to fight each other constantly and hence write rather partisan legislation that lacks a broad consensus, or do you want them to work together more and produce bipartisan legislation?

So think about that when you bitch about what Senators are doing - they were sent there by the public and are presumably doing what the public wants. Quit throwing tantrums because your legislation is not passing with the speed you want.

They most certainly aren't doing what you want, that's the one thing that is consistent about your rant, and judging by the approval ratings of Congress, I'd say it's safe to say that the public as a whole doesn't approve of what they're doing either. The massive imbalance between the approval rating of Congress as a whole and that of individual Congressmen is a big part of the problem, a big part of why it's so hard to fix the mess Congress is in: a classic, gigantic prisoner's dilemma. And anyone at all familiar with game theory will understand why Bayh and Graham have made the comments they have, and expressed those wishes for a better atmosphere and working relationship within Congress.

And some of us are perfectly happy with that. What is the percentage for me on compromising on some bill I am opposed to? I get it anyway. Short of it being voted down, the works being all gummed up is the best outcome and a far superior outcome than a bill that is only partially offensive or slightly less harmful.

I'm not a big fan of your radical, absolutist outlook on life in any situation, but it most certainly isn't a way to govern a country.

If he's sincere about wanting to restore decorum and civility to the Senate, perhaps Mr. Bayh would support a repeal of the 17th Amendment reducing the need for campaign fiances by the Senators, and thus reducing corporate influence.


I'm kind of having a hard time telling if this is sarcasm or meant seriously. On the one hand, I imagine you oppose the 17th amendment on the grounds of it being a rather radical innovation to the Founding Father's vision of the American political system, but on the other, repealing it would reduce the direct power of the voter, which judging by most of your remarks you'd be against as well - and you seem to be a big fan of corporate influence for some reason, judging by the big words you sling around while defending that recent Supreme Court decision. So I don't know.
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"Why I'm Leaving the Senate" - Evan Bayh on the state of the US Senate - 24/02/2010 10:10:55 AM 600 Views
Most of us like Evan - 24/02/2010 01:13:34 PM 253 Views
Re: Most of us like Evan - 24/02/2010 02:56:12 PM 226 Views
Re: Most of us like Evan - 24/02/2010 02:59:28 PM 223 Views
Good point. *NM* - 24/02/2010 03:11:49 PM 88 Views
Not bad. Pretty agreeable. *NM* - 24/02/2010 03:46:45 PM 80 Views
"Why I'm Glad to See You Go" by a citizen and taxpayer - 24/02/2010 05:10:40 PM 414 Views
Re: "Why I'm Glad to See You Go" by a citizen and taxpayer - 24/02/2010 06:21:57 PM 223 Views
Re: "Why I'm Glad to See You Go" by a citizen and taxpayer - 25/02/2010 05:05:16 PM 250 Views
+1 *NM* - 24/02/2010 06:31:46 PM 85 Views
You know, you really need to stop that habit of replying to every single paragraph. - 24/02/2010 10:07:10 PM 271 Views
And not 1 mention of term-limits *NM* - 24/02/2010 07:33:47 PM 87 Views
We have this thing called "a ballot box." Why shouldn't directly elected legislators be re-eligible? *NM* - 25/02/2010 05:50:31 PM 94 Views
Ask George Washington *NM* - 25/02/2010 06:18:38 PM 90 Views
did GW call for term limits? - 25/02/2010 06:35:33 PM 226 Views
Well I rather liked it. - 24/02/2010 11:30:08 PM 211 Views
I'm glad. I hoped as much when I saw you were around today. *NM* - 24/02/2010 11:35:00 PM 83 Views
Where have you been? *NM* - 25/02/2010 12:49:38 AM 83 Views
Busy with real life - 25/02/2010 04:54:36 PM 221 Views
I quite like the timing on this - 25/02/2010 09:44:30 AM 214 Views

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