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Yes, but we can't argue abuse of law. Aemon Send a noteboard - 03/03/2010 06:51:23 AM
Or at least, not an abuse of the system, and I said so. I haven't read the immigration law as it applies to asylum. The fact that a judge made a ruling and a lawyer gave an opinion on a ruling does not mean it is necessarily within the law. How many times do courts over turn each other or disagree on the same subjects? How many times to lawyers spend hours bickering over each other of the semantics of a specific law? So yes, I doubt that it's not abusing the system.


...because neither of us are lawyers. I mentioned the judge and the lawyer simply to lend the family a little credibility. Two legal professionals agreed with their argument. That's significant, even if other legal professionals overturn it down the line.

Now, what we were arguing was two-fold.

1) Whether the family had a moral "right" to invoke the law. You said no, because there were other people who deserved it more. Namely, Mexicans. I pointed out that this family immigrating through use of Asylum law has no effect whatsoever on Mexican immigrants. It's not like there're ten slots every year, and once they're gone, they're gone. It's a case by case basis. Some people definitely deserve to be here more than these people, and aren't able to make it happen, for various reasons, but that doesn't mean this family shouldn't come too.

2) The morality of the law itself / the judge's decision. You said that the law shouldn't apply to people like this because they're not persecuted. Going to school for a year is "no big deal." I said that, generically, being fined tens of thousands of dollars and having policemen show up every morning to take your kids to be indoctrinated in a belief system you vehemently disagree with DOES sound like persecution. The only reason you don't think they were persecuted is that you don't agree with their morals.

So. Nice little summary for us there. :P
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Homeschooling: German Family Gets Political Asylum in U.S. - 02/03/2010 10:30:01 PM 1628 Views
Looks like a win-win situation to me. - 02/03/2010 11:01:22 PM 877 Views
Exactly - 03/03/2010 08:54:10 AM 833 Views
yah...but...but.... - 03/03/2010 01:13:31 PM 754 Views
Germany does have a history of getting rid of people it doesn't like *NM* - 03/03/2010 02:08:37 PM 522 Views
Yawn. At least beckstcw was joking when he invoked Godwin's law below. I hope. *NM* - 03/03/2010 02:10:18 PM 441 Views
That is a load of crap - 03/03/2010 02:53:02 PM 525 Views
uhm, how would Germany be offending the US? - 03/03/2010 02:56:52 PM 495 Views
I meant in general not in this specfic case - 03/03/2010 02:59:01 PM 432 Views
ahh mk *NM* - 03/03/2010 03:09:39 PM 478 Views
Um. - 03/03/2010 02:57:53 PM 370 Views
But our religious beliefs and belief in allowing religious freedom is fair game? - 03/03/2010 03:09:48 PM 376 Views
Yes? - 03/03/2010 03:40:30 PM 353 Views
If you made fun of the Native Americans I would be offended - 03/03/2010 03:46:05 PM 602 Views
It's actually quite the opposite. - 03/03/2010 03:57:19 PM 578 Views
and I would say they trying to fix intolerance with more intolerance - 03/03/2010 04:13:49 PM 363 Views
That was probably the stupidest thing I ever saw you write - 03/03/2010 03:28:39 PM 535 Views
You were the one who said good riddance - 03/03/2010 03:43:24 PM 384 Views
It's the usual story of American ideology and European pragmatism. - 03/03/2010 03:52:51 PM 542 Views
exactly. - 03/03/2010 03:56:11 PM 492 Views
Yes, because I won't miss them much. - 03/03/2010 03:55:29 PM 576 Views
well said - 03/03/2010 06:34:18 PM 571 Views
I think it's outrageous they'd fine people for that - 02/03/2010 11:07:57 PM 900 Views
Re: Homeschooling: German Family Gets Political Asylum in U.S. - 03/03/2010 01:09:23 AM 1024 Views
The socialization thing is mostly garbage - 03/03/2010 02:32:19 AM 887 Views
Yep, exactly. - 03/03/2010 02:41:14 AM 684 Views
Re: Yep, exactly. - 03/03/2010 03:12:48 AM 657 Views
Re: Yep, exactly. - 03/03/2010 03:34:33 AM 914 Views
Re: Yep, exactly. - 03/03/2010 04:34:30 AM 901 Views
*shrugs* I said it was anecdotal. I have no hard figures, only experiences. - 03/03/2010 03:28:29 AM 657 Views
The operative word IS mostly - 03/03/2010 04:33:20 AM 853 Views
'Mostly' is all that matters - 03/03/2010 05:46:01 AM 886 Views
Uhm, socialization is incredibly important. - 03/03/2010 06:03:30 AM 860 Views
Yes, but you don't need to be taught to do it - 03/03/2010 06:47:06 AM 821 Views
cats aren't pack or herd animals - 03/03/2010 06:53:02 AM 825 Views
Something of an inside joke, sorry - 03/03/2010 07:41:50 AM 839 Views
I'm a homeschooling parent. - 03/03/2010 07:09:03 PM 832 Views
LOL, we seem well represented on this site - 03/03/2010 10:02:16 PM 940 Views
to jump on the "I was homeschooled and I have social skills" bandwagon... - 03/03/2010 06:27:05 AM 1249 Views
I think you may be missing some things - 03/03/2010 02:48:27 PM 941 Views
Re: I think you may be missing some things - 05/03/2010 12:16:37 AM 1029 Views
I was homeschooled through grade 12, and my mom has done pro bono legal work for HSLDA. - 03/03/2010 02:20:38 AM 815 Views
I agree that it can be a very good option for some families - 03/03/2010 04:42:21 AM 935 Views
Re: I agree that it can be a very good option for some families - 03/03/2010 05:16:17 AM 773 Views
It depends on the public school. - 03/03/2010 05:23:09 AM 817 Views
Re: It depends on the public school. - 03/03/2010 05:45:07 AM 827 Views
"done right" is not always the case - 03/03/2010 05:58:26 AM 637 Views
Re: "done right" is not always the case - 03/03/2010 06:14:43 AM 963 Views
Re: "done right" is not always the case - 03/03/2010 06:31:04 AM 877 Views
Well let's talk stats then. - 03/03/2010 06:55:14 AM 821 Views
please do not get me started on statistis. - 03/03/2010 07:11:19 AM 740 Views
Re: please do not get me started on statistis. - 03/03/2010 07:28:41 AM 792 Views
you missed my point. - 03/03/2010 01:10:26 PM 816 Views
You seem to be ignoring the matter of qualified teachers. - 03/03/2010 01:29:01 PM 780 Views
Your comments on public school educations have rather limited relevance to other countries, though. - 03/03/2010 09:53:30 AM 888 Views
+ ^ *NM* - 03/03/2010 01:11:04 PM 443 Views
While I support homeschooling, this is ridiculous. - 03/03/2010 04:48:40 AM 937 Views
Meh. - 03/03/2010 05:20:50 AM 869 Views
one year in a public school - 03/03/2010 05:32:13 AM 925 Views
Re: one year in a public school - 03/03/2010 05:58:48 AM 684 Views
No, I think i will nitpick. - 03/03/2010 06:11:44 AM 828 Views
This is getting off track and wasting time. - 03/03/2010 06:26:36 AM 853 Views
I'm not even certain it's 100% legal. - 03/03/2010 06:34:44 AM 628 Views
Yes, but we can't argue abuse of law. - 03/03/2010 06:51:23 AM 751 Views
I only used Mexicans because I'm from Arizona - 03/03/2010 07:04:29 AM 883 Views
I think I have the gist of it, - 03/03/2010 07:17:40 AM 760 Views
we haven't heard anything about their beliefs for me to think they're stupid. - 03/03/2010 02:54:25 PM 869 Views
According to the Süddeutsche Zeitung... - 03/03/2010 03:38:13 PM 773 Views
they don't have private christian schools in germany? - 03/03/2010 03:54:07 PM 737 Views
Not many, I dare say, but a few probably. *NM* - 03/03/2010 03:59:11 PM 466 Views
Say what? - 03/03/2010 09:38:40 AM 730 Views
Being able raise your kids by your beliefs is a frivolous matter? - 03/03/2010 03:21:23 PM 667 Views
Germany is not saying "you can't raise your kids by your beliefs" - 03/03/2010 03:31:01 PM 776 Views
It's not a recent law, and supposedly other German families have moved to France and the UK. - 03/03/2010 03:45:56 PM 865 Views
figured that. - 03/03/2010 03:58:57 PM 752 Views
I think that would fly in very face of political assylum - 03/03/2010 04:12:48 PM 824 Views
Yes, but they did not need political asylum. - 03/03/2010 04:28:16 PM 828 Views
how is that different then other political refuges we allow in? - 03/03/2010 04:55:14 PM 753 Views
I believe Legolas linked an article - 03/03/2010 04:57:09 PM 738 Views
I never saw the link - 03/03/2010 05:08:21 PM 640 Views
I'm not sure if they offered "formal" assurances or some such - 03/03/2010 05:21:54 PM 576 Views
Compared to not being able to feed your kids, yes, it is. - 03/03/2010 03:42:58 PM 656 Views
yes but we don't grant political assylum for being hungry - 03/03/2010 04:34:23 PM 739 Views
no we don't. - 03/03/2010 04:50:31 PM 604 Views
Do you have a better system? - 03/03/2010 05:05:42 PM 904 Views
Immigration processes could certainly use some reform - 03/03/2010 05:32:22 PM 703 Views
The system sucks, big government typically does not function well - 03/03/2010 05:48:25 PM 659 Views
we probably would all be better off... - 03/03/2010 07:27:28 PM 756 Views
good because Texas is taken - 03/03/2010 07:47:46 PM 782 Views
No, true, that was about the illegal immigrants. - 03/03/2010 09:53:18 PM 875 Views
Absolutely. - 03/03/2010 09:32:41 AM 838 Views
Doesn't matter why, but all parents should have the right to homeschool..... - 03/03/2010 04:48:57 AM 695 Views
there are far worse faults for a country to have *NM* - 03/03/2010 05:14:11 AM 445 Views
That whole thing is pretty silly - 03/03/2010 12:18:45 PM 927 Views
Re: socialising. - 03/03/2010 06:13:49 PM 875 Views
And then there are secular people like myself, who - 03/03/2010 06:44:13 PM 833 Views
I think I'd do that too, if I had the patience. - 03/03/2010 06:45:20 PM 698 Views
*agree* - 03/03/2010 07:41:56 PM 871 Views
That is the catagory I'm in. - 03/03/2010 07:46:12 PM 763 Views
Re: probably more likely - 04/03/2010 12:19:37 AM 882 Views
I am opposed to homeschooling but believe it should be a legal option. - 03/03/2010 02:32:34 PM 843 Views
I think you make a good point here - 03/03/2010 05:22:59 PM 860 Views
but...but...parents can't educate their children outside of school!! - 03/03/2010 05:40:30 PM 788 Views
I don't agree with them I just support their right to be wrong - 03/03/2010 06:04:11 PM 850 Views
The statistics are flawed, as I've noted above - 03/03/2010 07:07:11 PM 704 Views
Your views on this are not fact-driven - 03/03/2010 09:13:07 PM 880 Views
No, what you're saying is that my answer isn't driven by STATISTICS. - 03/03/2010 10:36:50 PM 822 Views
Granted, but there is no obvious source for bias - 03/03/2010 10:57:19 PM 752 Views
Again, I'm not saying it applies to everyone - 03/03/2010 11:51:17 PM 659 Views
Re: Again, I'm not saying it applies to everyone - 04/03/2010 12:16:29 AM 901 Views
You mean aside from the fact that you are already arguing about it? - 04/03/2010 12:14:02 AM 635 Views
Yes, I mentioned this in my reply to Tom, see below... - 04/03/2010 12:19:42 AM 780 Views
Fair enough - 04/03/2010 12:21:41 AM 691 Views
Re: Fair enough - 04/03/2010 12:37:06 AM 1121 Views
Re: Fair enough - 04/03/2010 09:39:38 AM 817 Views
Umm Massachusetts did have slavery in 1717 - 03/03/2010 02:55:25 PM 740 Views
Wow....so this got the board going. A question for everyone... - 03/03/2010 06:02:57 PM 925 Views
I think it is incumbent on the state to show that kids are being in some way harmed - 03/03/2010 06:07:13 PM 861 Views
Interesting - 03/03/2010 06:25:43 PM 953 Views
I never said there should be no limits on what parents should be able to do - 03/03/2010 06:38:53 PM 899 Views
What you said was: - 03/03/2010 06:51:26 PM 918 Views
I think it's safe to say teaching your kids to be little sociopaths qualifies as harm. - 03/03/2010 09:17:48 PM 692 Views
I think so too - 03/03/2010 10:46:41 PM 910 Views
Yes they do. Provided... - 03/03/2010 07:04:46 PM 768 Views
One of the reasons... - 03/03/2010 07:40:54 PM 856 Views
that is fair enough - 03/03/2010 07:51:31 PM 733 Views
Hmmph. Inappropriate action on the part of the judge who allowed them to stay. - 03/03/2010 06:22:08 PM 800 Views
I agree completely with this. *NM* - 03/03/2010 06:42:01 PM 506 Views
agree. *NM* - 03/03/2010 06:49:01 PM 325 Views
You just skip the part where they have to show they are being persecuted - 03/03/2010 06:54:20 PM 922 Views
"Persecution" can be a matter of opinion, though. - 03/03/2010 07:04:46 PM 890 Views
officers will track down kids ditching school here. - 03/03/2010 07:17:57 PM 936 Views
I'm not sure what they do in Canada - 03/03/2010 10:49:00 PM 906 Views
Agrees - 03/03/2010 06:54:59 PM 764 Views
New Cosmic Powers of the admins - 03/03/2010 06:52:57 PM 669 Views
It is the Power of the Ben™ *NM* - 03/03/2010 08:48:11 PM 460 Views
*walks in, looks around* - 03/03/2010 07:52:09 PM 874 Views
Re: *walks in, looks around* - 03/03/2010 09:25:46 PM 655 Views
What, no defending Germany today? *NM* - 03/03/2010 10:03:01 PM 468 Views
Even I need a day off *NM* - 04/03/2010 01:02:17 AM 459 Views
Re: *walks in, looks around* - 03/03/2010 10:33:24 PM 691 Views
Interesting - 03/03/2010 11:02:27 PM 867 Views
Am I recalling correctly that you know some German? - 03/03/2010 11:07:00 PM 827 Views
Sorry, nope. - 04/03/2010 09:14:49 PM 628 Views
Oh. Ah well. - 04/03/2010 09:23:11 PM 781 Views
One thing all of us homeschooled kids are missing is... - 04/03/2010 01:53:22 AM 751 Views

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