Or at least, not an abuse of the system, and I said so. I haven't read the immigration law as it applies to asylum. The fact that a judge made a ruling and a lawyer gave an opinion on a ruling does not mean it is necessarily within the law. How many times do courts over turn each other or disagree on the same subjects? How many times to lawyers spend hours bickering over each other of the semantics of a specific law? So yes, I doubt that it's not abusing the system.
...because neither of us are lawyers. I mentioned the judge and the lawyer simply to lend the family a little credibility. Two legal professionals agreed with their argument. That's significant, even if other legal professionals overturn it down the line.
Now, what we were arguing was two-fold.
1) Whether the family had a moral "right" to invoke the law. You said no, because there were other people who deserved it more. Namely, Mexicans. I pointed out that this family immigrating through use of Asylum law has no effect whatsoever on Mexican immigrants. It's not like there're ten slots every year, and once they're gone, they're gone. It's a case by case basis. Some people definitely deserve to be here more than these people, and aren't able to make it happen, for various reasons, but that doesn't mean this family shouldn't come too.
2) The morality of the law itself / the judge's decision. You said that the law shouldn't apply to people like this because they're not persecuted. Going to school for a year is "no big deal." I said that, generically, being fined tens of thousands of dollars and having policemen show up every morning to take your kids to be indoctrinated in a belief system you vehemently disagree with DOES sound like persecution. The only reason you don't think they were persecuted is that you don't agree with their morals.
So. Nice little summary for us there.
Homeschooling: German Family Gets Political Asylum in U.S.
- 02/03/2010 10:30:01 PM
1546 Views
Looks like a win-win situation to me.
- 02/03/2010 11:01:22 PM
804 Views
Germany does have a history of getting rid of people it doesn't like *NM*
- 03/03/2010 02:08:37 PM
489 Views
Yawn. At least beckstcw was joking when he invoked Godwin's law below. I hope. *NM*
- 03/03/2010 02:10:18 PM
406 Views
That is a load of crap
- 03/03/2010 02:53:02 PM
489 Views
uhm, how would Germany be offending the US?
- 03/03/2010 02:56:52 PM
451 Views
Um.
- 03/03/2010 02:57:53 PM
336 Views
But our religious beliefs and belief in allowing religious freedom is fair game?
- 03/03/2010 03:09:48 PM
344 Views
Yes?
- 03/03/2010 03:40:30 PM
319 Views
If you made fun of the Native Americans I would be offended
- 03/03/2010 03:46:05 PM
569 Views
It's actually quite the opposite.
- 03/03/2010 03:57:19 PM
543 Views
and I would say they trying to fix intolerance with more intolerance
- 03/03/2010 04:13:49 PM
326 Views
That was probably the stupidest thing I ever saw you write
- 03/03/2010 03:28:39 PM
496 Views
You were the one who said good riddance
- 03/03/2010 03:43:24 PM
353 Views
It's the usual story of American ideology and European pragmatism.
- 03/03/2010 03:52:51 PM
512 Views
This is getting a bit off the discussion. Please keep it civil, everyone. *NM*
- 03/03/2010 06:55:11 PM
429 Views
Re: Homeschooling: German Family Gets Political Asylum in U.S.
- 03/03/2010 01:09:23 AM
951 Views
The socialization thing is mostly garbage
- 03/03/2010 02:32:19 AM
821 Views
Yep, exactly.
- 03/03/2010 02:41:14 AM
609 Views
Re: Yep, exactly.
- 03/03/2010 03:12:48 AM
592 Views
*shrugs* I said it was anecdotal. I have no hard figures, only experiences.
- 03/03/2010 03:28:29 AM
580 Views
The operative word IS mostly
- 03/03/2010 04:33:20 AM
780 Views
'Mostly' is all that matters
- 03/03/2010 05:46:01 AM
821 Views
Uhm, socialization is incredibly important.
- 03/03/2010 06:03:30 AM
783 Views
Yes, but you don't need to be taught to do it
- 03/03/2010 06:47:06 AM
755 Views
cats aren't pack or herd animals
- 03/03/2010 06:53:02 AM
733 Views
- 03/03/2010 06:53:02 AM
733 Views
Something of an inside joke, sorry
- 03/03/2010 07:41:50 AM
768 Views
us closely associated with schools are sensitive on the issue too
- 03/03/2010 01:05:27 PM
586 Views
- 03/03/2010 01:05:27 PM
586 Views
Re: us closely associated with schools are sensitive on the issue too
- 03/03/2010 10:19:21 PM
655 Views
- 03/03/2010 10:19:21 PM
655 Views
I would agree that households with two working parnets shouldn't home school *NM*
- 03/03/2010 03:22:51 PM
409 Views
to jump on the "I was homeschooled and I have social skills" bandwagon...
- 03/03/2010 06:27:05 AM
1162 Views
I was homeschooled through grade 12, and my mom has done pro bono legal work for HSLDA.
- 03/03/2010 02:20:38 AM
742 Views
I agree that it can be a very good option for some families
- 03/03/2010 04:42:21 AM
861 Views
Re: I agree that it can be a very good option for some families
- 03/03/2010 05:16:17 AM
701 Views
It depends on the public school.
- 03/03/2010 05:23:09 AM
748 Views
Re: It depends on the public school.
- 03/03/2010 05:45:07 AM
752 Views
"done right" is not always the case
- 03/03/2010 05:58:26 AM
562 Views
Re: "done right" is not always the case
- 03/03/2010 06:14:43 AM
895 Views
Re: "done right" is not always the case
- 03/03/2010 06:31:04 AM
804 Views
Well let's talk stats then.
- 03/03/2010 06:55:14 AM
755 Views
please do not get me started on statistis.
- 03/03/2010 07:11:19 AM
670 Views
Your comments on public school educations have rather limited relevance to other countries, though.
- 03/03/2010 09:53:30 AM
807 Views
While I support homeschooling, this is ridiculous.
- 03/03/2010 04:48:40 AM
855 Views
Meh.
- 03/03/2010 05:20:50 AM
796 Views
one year in a public school
- 03/03/2010 05:32:13 AM
843 Views
Re: one year in a public school
- 03/03/2010 05:58:48 AM
604 Views
No, I think i will nitpick.
- 03/03/2010 06:11:44 AM
743 Views
This is getting off track and wasting time.
- 03/03/2010 06:26:36 AM
776 Views
I'm not even certain it's 100% legal.
- 03/03/2010 06:34:44 AM
560 Views
Yes, but we can't argue abuse of law.
- 03/03/2010 06:51:23 AM
684 Views
I only used Mexicans because I'm from Arizona
- 03/03/2010 07:04:29 AM
800 Views
- 03/03/2010 07:04:29 AM
800 Views
I think I have the gist of it,
- 03/03/2010 07:17:40 AM
692 Views
we haven't heard anything about their beliefs for me to think they're stupid.
- 03/03/2010 02:54:25 PM
788 Views
According to the Süddeutsche Zeitung...
- 03/03/2010 03:38:13 PM
703 Views
Say what?
- 03/03/2010 09:38:40 AM
656 Views
Being able raise your kids by your beliefs is a frivolous matter?
- 03/03/2010 03:21:23 PM
586 Views
Germany is not saying "you can't raise your kids by your beliefs"
- 03/03/2010 03:31:01 PM
703 Views
It's not a recent law, and supposedly other German families have moved to France and the UK.
- 03/03/2010 03:45:56 PM
802 Views
I think that would fly in very face of political assylum
- 03/03/2010 04:12:48 PM
752 Views
Yes, but they did not need political asylum.
- 03/03/2010 04:28:16 PM
765 Views
how is that different then other political refuges we allow in?
- 03/03/2010 04:55:14 PM
688 Views
I believe Legolas linked an article
- 03/03/2010 04:57:09 PM
658 Views
I never saw the link
- 03/03/2010 05:08:21 PM
569 Views
I'm not sure if they offered "formal" assurances or some such
- 03/03/2010 05:21:54 PM
492 Views
that was a mayor, I doubt he would have the final word on the issue
- 03/03/2010 05:46:22 PM
553 Views
You don't have a law about removing children from parental custody? At all?
- 03/03/2010 09:43:15 PM
705 Views
They can take your kids from for not sending them to school but not for home schooling them
- 03/03/2010 10:35:48 PM
714 Views
Compared to not being able to feed your kids, yes, it is.
- 03/03/2010 03:42:58 PM
582 Views
yes but we don't grant political assylum for being hungry
- 03/03/2010 04:34:23 PM
662 Views
no we don't.
- 03/03/2010 04:50:31 PM
539 Views
Do you have a better system?
- 03/03/2010 05:05:42 PM
828 Views
Immigration processes could certainly use some reform
- 03/03/2010 05:32:22 PM
637 Views
The system sucks, big government typically does not function well
- 03/03/2010 05:48:25 PM
578 Views
Oh, and did you miss the part where the federal government is appealing the decision? *NM*
- 03/03/2010 09:40:42 AM
410 Views
I would consider the threat of losing my children because of my beliefs to be a real threat *NM*
- 03/03/2010 02:54:08 PM
454 Views
Doesn't matter why, but all parents should have the right to homeschool.....
- 03/03/2010 04:48:57 AM
617 Views
That whole thing is pretty silly
- 03/03/2010 12:18:45 PM
841 Views
Re: socialising.
- 03/03/2010 06:13:49 PM
803 Views
I am opposed to homeschooling but believe it should be a legal option.
- 03/03/2010 02:32:34 PM
775 Views
I think you make a good point here
- 03/03/2010 05:22:59 PM
788 Views
but...but...parents can't educate their children outside of school!!
- 03/03/2010 05:40:30 PM
718 Views
I don't agree with them I just support their right to be wrong
- 03/03/2010 06:04:11 PM
770 Views
The statistics are flawed, as I've noted above
- 03/03/2010 07:07:11 PM
627 Views
they tend to beat private schools as well would should flatten out the demographics
- 03/03/2010 07:53:38 PM
712 Views
Your views on this are not fact-driven
- 03/03/2010 09:13:07 PM
810 Views
No, what you're saying is that my answer isn't driven by STATISTICS.
- 03/03/2010 10:36:50 PM
741 Views
Granted, but there is no obvious source for bias
- 03/03/2010 10:57:19 PM
670 Views
You mean aside from the fact that you are already arguing about it?
- 04/03/2010 12:14:02 AM
567 Views
Yes, I mentioned this in my reply to Tom, see below...
- 04/03/2010 12:19:42 AM
707 Views
And the wikipedia article you pointed me to had a different study that contradicts your point.
- 03/03/2010 10:42:54 PM
682 Views
Religious or *moral* instruction
- 03/03/2010 10:49:48 PM
756 Views
I haven't really "met" you the way I meant it in that reply
- 03/03/2010 11:48:11 PM
559 Views
Granted but for our purposes I think people on this site would qualify
- 04/03/2010 12:05:03 AM
727 Views
Umm Massachusetts did have slavery in 1717
- 03/03/2010 02:55:25 PM
668 Views
His argument on the law of Germany is a bad one generally, though, not just for that reason.
- 03/03/2010 03:31:00 PM
585 Views
Wow....so this got the board going. A question for everyone...
- 03/03/2010 06:02:57 PM
852 Views
I think it is incumbent on the state to show that kids are being in some way harmed
- 03/03/2010 06:07:13 PM
780 Views
Interesting
- 03/03/2010 06:25:43 PM
876 Views
I never said there should be no limits on what parents should be able to do
- 03/03/2010 06:38:53 PM
827 Views
I think it's safe to say teaching your kids to be little sociopaths qualifies as harm.
- 03/03/2010 09:17:48 PM
598 Views
I think so too
- 03/03/2010 10:46:41 PM
827 Views
I think the problem there was it was seen as inherently political, that, and showing harm.
- 03/03/2010 11:44:21 PM
649 Views
Yes they do. Provided...
- 03/03/2010 07:04:46 PM
694 Views
There is a reason why education until 18 (or 16, depending) is not merely a right, but a duty.
- 03/03/2010 10:00:53 PM
765 Views
Hmmph. Inappropriate action on the part of the judge who allowed them to stay.
- 03/03/2010 06:22:08 PM
724 Views
You just skip the part where they have to show they are being persecuted
- 03/03/2010 06:54:20 PM
844 Views
As I said, most people would prefer to have their safety threatened to losing their kids. *NM*
- 06/03/2010 10:14:52 PM
481 Views
*walks in, looks around*
- 03/03/2010 07:52:09 PM
800 Views
Interesting
- 03/03/2010 11:02:27 PM
789 Views

