Active Users:759 Time:17/03/2026 03:17:07 PM
I only used Mexicans because I'm from Arizona LadyLorraine Send a noteboard - 03/03/2010 07:04:29 AM
So given that I had many friends who were hispanic and fresh out of legal immigrant families, I went with it :P But you could say the same about other countries with similar or worse living conditions, which really was my point there. Mexicans/hispanics are just the group I'm most familiar with.

Now, what we were arguing was two-fold.

1) Whether the family had a moral "right" to invoke the law. You said no, because there were other people who deserved it more. Namely, Mexicans. I pointed out that this family immigrating through use of Asylum law has no effect whatsoever on Mexican immigrants. It's not like there're ten slots every year, and once they're gone, they're gone. It's a case by case basis. Some people definitely deserve to be here more than these people, and aren't able to make it happen, for various reasons, but that doesn't mean this family shouldn't come too.


As I said, the only reason I used mexicans were because that's what I'm familiar with. You could substitute any applicable group, and I wasn't hinking there was some magic quota :P And I'm not saying that this family shouldn't come here!! I'm just saying that they shouldn't use Asylum to do so.

2) The morality of the law itself / the judge's decision. You said that the law shouldn't apply to people like this because they're not persecuted. Going to school for a year is "no big deal." I said that, generically, being fined tens of thousands of dollars and having policemen show up every morning to take your kids to be indoctrinated in a belief system you vehemently disagree with DOES sound like persecution. The only reason you don't think they were persecuted is that you don't agree with their morals.


I don't think they were persecuted because it wasn't public-school or die!! They could have sent their kids to ANY school for that one year. They could have picked a nice little evangelical school, or a private school that taught a curriculum they agree with. They could have, you know, thought about the fact that home schooling is illegal in Germany before their kids were of schooling age. That's always a good thing too. Think of all that time and money and horrible indoctrination that could have been saved. The fines and police-marching are shitty, but it's not like they couldn't have started the application process before they had kids, or when their kids were nearing of-schooling age. Or did they think they'd be able to slip under the radar? I don't know. Either way, I think you do raise a good point how it could be considered persecution, but it's not like Germany teaches Nazi-ism and Atheism. Unless their kids are in middle school, they wouldn't even be learning controversial things like "evolution" (which I would presume as evangelicals they'd have an objection to). In this instance, I would not call it persecution. If it was a different country, I could possibly agree with you, but in this instance, I think Asylum was totally unnecessary.

So. Nice little summary for us there. :P
Still Empress of the Poofy Purple Pillow Pile Palace!!
Continued Love of my Aussie <3
Reply to message
Homeschooling: German Family Gets Political Asylum in U.S. - 02/03/2010 10:30:01 PM 1573 Views
Looks like a win-win situation to me. - 02/03/2010 11:01:22 PM 821 Views
Exactly - 03/03/2010 08:54:10 AM 782 Views
yah...but...but.... - 03/03/2010 01:13:31 PM 698 Views
Germany does have a history of getting rid of people it doesn't like *NM* - 03/03/2010 02:08:37 PM 498 Views
Yawn. At least beckstcw was joking when he invoked Godwin's law below. I hope. *NM* - 03/03/2010 02:10:18 PM 413 Views
That is a load of crap - 03/03/2010 02:53:02 PM 497 Views
uhm, how would Germany be offending the US? - 03/03/2010 02:56:52 PM 461 Views
I meant in general not in this specfic case - 03/03/2010 02:59:01 PM 407 Views
ahh mk *NM* - 03/03/2010 03:09:39 PM 444 Views
Um. - 03/03/2010 02:57:53 PM 344 Views
But our religious beliefs and belief in allowing religious freedom is fair game? - 03/03/2010 03:09:48 PM 350 Views
Yes? - 03/03/2010 03:40:30 PM 328 Views
If you made fun of the Native Americans I would be offended - 03/03/2010 03:46:05 PM 578 Views
It's actually quite the opposite. - 03/03/2010 03:57:19 PM 551 Views
and I would say they trying to fix intolerance with more intolerance - 03/03/2010 04:13:49 PM 336 Views
That was probably the stupidest thing I ever saw you write - 03/03/2010 03:28:39 PM 502 Views
You were the one who said good riddance - 03/03/2010 03:43:24 PM 359 Views
It's the usual story of American ideology and European pragmatism. - 03/03/2010 03:52:51 PM 518 Views
exactly. - 03/03/2010 03:56:11 PM 463 Views
Yes, because I won't miss them much. - 03/03/2010 03:55:29 PM 547 Views
well said - 03/03/2010 06:34:18 PM 539 Views
I think it's outrageous they'd fine people for that - 02/03/2010 11:07:57 PM 846 Views
Re: Homeschooling: German Family Gets Political Asylum in U.S. - 03/03/2010 01:09:23 AM 969 Views
The socialization thing is mostly garbage - 03/03/2010 02:32:19 AM 843 Views
Yep, exactly. - 03/03/2010 02:41:14 AM 628 Views
Re: Yep, exactly. - 03/03/2010 03:12:48 AM 615 Views
Re: Yep, exactly. - 03/03/2010 03:34:33 AM 854 Views
Re: Yep, exactly. - 03/03/2010 04:34:30 AM 848 Views
*shrugs* I said it was anecdotal. I have no hard figures, only experiences. - 03/03/2010 03:28:29 AM 604 Views
The operative word IS mostly - 03/03/2010 04:33:20 AM 798 Views
'Mostly' is all that matters - 03/03/2010 05:46:01 AM 842 Views
Uhm, socialization is incredibly important. - 03/03/2010 06:03:30 AM 806 Views
Yes, but you don't need to be taught to do it - 03/03/2010 06:47:06 AM 774 Views
cats aren't pack or herd animals - 03/03/2010 06:53:02 AM 755 Views
Something of an inside joke, sorry - 03/03/2010 07:41:50 AM 785 Views
I'm a homeschooling parent. - 03/03/2010 07:09:03 PM 775 Views
LOL, we seem well represented on this site - 03/03/2010 10:02:16 PM 883 Views
to jump on the "I was homeschooled and I have social skills" bandwagon... - 03/03/2010 06:27:05 AM 1182 Views
I think you may be missing some things - 03/03/2010 02:48:27 PM 895 Views
Re: I think you may be missing some things - 05/03/2010 12:16:37 AM 972 Views
I was homeschooled through grade 12, and my mom has done pro bono legal work for HSLDA. - 03/03/2010 02:20:38 AM 764 Views
I agree that it can be a very good option for some families - 03/03/2010 04:42:21 AM 884 Views
Re: I agree that it can be a very good option for some families - 03/03/2010 05:16:17 AM 723 Views
It depends on the public school. - 03/03/2010 05:23:09 AM 770 Views
Re: It depends on the public school. - 03/03/2010 05:45:07 AM 773 Views
"done right" is not always the case - 03/03/2010 05:58:26 AM 582 Views
Re: "done right" is not always the case - 03/03/2010 06:14:43 AM 914 Views
Re: "done right" is not always the case - 03/03/2010 06:31:04 AM 824 Views
Well let's talk stats then. - 03/03/2010 06:55:14 AM 776 Views
please do not get me started on statistis. - 03/03/2010 07:11:19 AM 693 Views
Re: please do not get me started on statistis. - 03/03/2010 07:28:41 AM 743 Views
you missed my point. - 03/03/2010 01:10:26 PM 764 Views
You seem to be ignoring the matter of qualified teachers. - 03/03/2010 01:29:01 PM 729 Views
Your comments on public school educations have rather limited relevance to other countries, though. - 03/03/2010 09:53:30 AM 832 Views
+ ^ *NM* - 03/03/2010 01:11:04 PM 413 Views
While I support homeschooling, this is ridiculous. - 03/03/2010 04:48:40 AM 873 Views
Meh. - 03/03/2010 05:20:50 AM 818 Views
one year in a public school - 03/03/2010 05:32:13 AM 865 Views
Re: one year in a public school - 03/03/2010 05:58:48 AM 627 Views
No, I think i will nitpick. - 03/03/2010 06:11:44 AM 774 Views
This is getting off track and wasting time. - 03/03/2010 06:26:36 AM 800 Views
I'm not even certain it's 100% legal. - 03/03/2010 06:34:44 AM 585 Views
Yes, but we can't argue abuse of law. - 03/03/2010 06:51:23 AM 699 Views
I only used Mexicans because I'm from Arizona - 03/03/2010 07:04:29 AM 823 Views
I think I have the gist of it, - 03/03/2010 07:17:40 AM 709 Views
we haven't heard anything about their beliefs for me to think they're stupid. - 03/03/2010 02:54:25 PM 807 Views
According to the Süddeutsche Zeitung... - 03/03/2010 03:38:13 PM 721 Views
they don't have private christian schools in germany? - 03/03/2010 03:54:07 PM 688 Views
Not many, I dare say, but a few probably. *NM* - 03/03/2010 03:59:11 PM 437 Views
Say what? - 03/03/2010 09:38:40 AM 675 Views
Being able raise your kids by your beliefs is a frivolous matter? - 03/03/2010 03:21:23 PM 605 Views
Germany is not saying "you can't raise your kids by your beliefs" - 03/03/2010 03:31:01 PM 722 Views
It's not a recent law, and supposedly other German families have moved to France and the UK. - 03/03/2010 03:45:56 PM 818 Views
figured that. - 03/03/2010 03:58:57 PM 699 Views
I think that would fly in very face of political assylum - 03/03/2010 04:12:48 PM 768 Views
Yes, but they did not need political asylum. - 03/03/2010 04:28:16 PM 782 Views
how is that different then other political refuges we allow in? - 03/03/2010 04:55:14 PM 705 Views
I believe Legolas linked an article - 03/03/2010 04:57:09 PM 685 Views
I never saw the link - 03/03/2010 05:08:21 PM 587 Views
I'm not sure if they offered "formal" assurances or some such - 03/03/2010 05:21:54 PM 521 Views
Compared to not being able to feed your kids, yes, it is. - 03/03/2010 03:42:58 PM 599 Views
yes but we don't grant political assylum for being hungry - 03/03/2010 04:34:23 PM 680 Views
no we don't. - 03/03/2010 04:50:31 PM 557 Views
Do you have a better system? - 03/03/2010 05:05:42 PM 847 Views
Immigration processes could certainly use some reform - 03/03/2010 05:32:22 PM 657 Views
The system sucks, big government typically does not function well - 03/03/2010 05:48:25 PM 599 Views
we probably would all be better off... - 03/03/2010 07:27:28 PM 699 Views
good because Texas is taken - 03/03/2010 07:47:46 PM 716 Views
No, true, that was about the illegal immigrants. - 03/03/2010 09:53:18 PM 813 Views
Absolutely. - 03/03/2010 09:32:41 AM 788 Views
Doesn't matter why, but all parents should have the right to homeschool..... - 03/03/2010 04:48:57 AM 639 Views
there are far worse faults for a country to have *NM* - 03/03/2010 05:14:11 AM 420 Views
That whole thing is pretty silly - 03/03/2010 12:18:45 PM 861 Views
Re: socialising. - 03/03/2010 06:13:49 PM 819 Views
And then there are secular people like myself, who - 03/03/2010 06:44:13 PM 769 Views
I think I'd do that too, if I had the patience. - 03/03/2010 06:45:20 PM 635 Views
*agree* - 03/03/2010 07:41:56 PM 812 Views
That is the catagory I'm in. - 03/03/2010 07:46:12 PM 707 Views
Re: probably more likely - 04/03/2010 12:19:37 AM 828 Views
I am opposed to homeschooling but believe it should be a legal option. - 03/03/2010 02:32:34 PM 790 Views
I think you make a good point here - 03/03/2010 05:22:59 PM 806 Views
but...but...parents can't educate their children outside of school!! - 03/03/2010 05:40:30 PM 741 Views
I don't agree with them I just support their right to be wrong - 03/03/2010 06:04:11 PM 791 Views
The statistics are flawed, as I've noted above - 03/03/2010 07:07:11 PM 648 Views
Your views on this are not fact-driven - 03/03/2010 09:13:07 PM 831 Views
No, what you're saying is that my answer isn't driven by STATISTICS. - 03/03/2010 10:36:50 PM 759 Views
Granted, but there is no obvious source for bias - 03/03/2010 10:57:19 PM 692 Views
Again, I'm not saying it applies to everyone - 03/03/2010 11:51:17 PM 595 Views
Re: Again, I'm not saying it applies to everyone - 04/03/2010 12:16:29 AM 839 Views
You mean aside from the fact that you are already arguing about it? - 04/03/2010 12:14:02 AM 585 Views
Yes, I mentioned this in my reply to Tom, see below... - 04/03/2010 12:19:42 AM 727 Views
Fair enough - 04/03/2010 12:21:41 AM 635 Views
Re: Fair enough - 04/03/2010 12:37:06 AM 1062 Views
Re: Fair enough - 04/03/2010 09:39:38 AM 761 Views
Umm Massachusetts did have slavery in 1717 - 03/03/2010 02:55:25 PM 690 Views
Wow....so this got the board going. A question for everyone... - 03/03/2010 06:02:57 PM 874 Views
I think it is incumbent on the state to show that kids are being in some way harmed - 03/03/2010 06:07:13 PM 797 Views
Interesting - 03/03/2010 06:25:43 PM 894 Views
I never said there should be no limits on what parents should be able to do - 03/03/2010 06:38:53 PM 845 Views
What you said was: - 03/03/2010 06:51:26 PM 859 Views
I think it's safe to say teaching your kids to be little sociopaths qualifies as harm. - 03/03/2010 09:17:48 PM 617 Views
I think so too - 03/03/2010 10:46:41 PM 852 Views
Yes they do. Provided... - 03/03/2010 07:04:46 PM 714 Views
One of the reasons... - 03/03/2010 07:40:54 PM 799 Views
that is fair enough - 03/03/2010 07:51:31 PM 681 Views
Hmmph. Inappropriate action on the part of the judge who allowed them to stay. - 03/03/2010 06:22:08 PM 744 Views
I agree completely with this. *NM* - 03/03/2010 06:42:01 PM 444 Views
agree. *NM* - 03/03/2010 06:49:01 PM 300 Views
You just skip the part where they have to show they are being persecuted - 03/03/2010 06:54:20 PM 863 Views
"Persecution" can be a matter of opinion, though. - 03/03/2010 07:04:46 PM 841 Views
officers will track down kids ditching school here. - 03/03/2010 07:17:57 PM 880 Views
I'm not sure what they do in Canada - 03/03/2010 10:49:00 PM 787 Views
Agrees - 03/03/2010 06:54:59 PM 704 Views
New Cosmic Powers of the admins - 03/03/2010 06:52:57 PM 611 Views
It is the Power of the Ben™ *NM* - 03/03/2010 08:48:11 PM 429 Views
*walks in, looks around* - 03/03/2010 07:52:09 PM 818 Views
Re: *walks in, looks around* - 03/03/2010 09:25:46 PM 597 Views
What, no defending Germany today? *NM* - 03/03/2010 10:03:01 PM 435 Views
Even I need a day off *NM* - 04/03/2010 01:02:17 AM 423 Views
Re: *walks in, looks around* - 03/03/2010 10:33:24 PM 640 Views
Interesting - 03/03/2010 11:02:27 PM 812 Views
Am I recalling correctly that you know some German? - 03/03/2010 11:07:00 PM 765 Views
Sorry, nope. - 04/03/2010 09:14:49 PM 573 Views
Oh. Ah well. - 04/03/2010 09:23:11 PM 729 Views
One thing all of us homeschooled kids are missing is... - 04/03/2010 01:53:22 AM 688 Views

Reply to Message