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I only used Mexicans because I'm from Arizona LadyLorraine Send a noteboard - 03/03/2010 07:04:29 AM
So given that I had many friends who were hispanic and fresh out of legal immigrant families, I went with it :P But you could say the same about other countries with similar or worse living conditions, which really was my point there. Mexicans/hispanics are just the group I'm most familiar with.

Now, what we were arguing was two-fold.

1) Whether the family had a moral "right" to invoke the law. You said no, because there were other people who deserved it more. Namely, Mexicans. I pointed out that this family immigrating through use of Asylum law has no effect whatsoever on Mexican immigrants. It's not like there're ten slots every year, and once they're gone, they're gone. It's a case by case basis. Some people definitely deserve to be here more than these people, and aren't able to make it happen, for various reasons, but that doesn't mean this family shouldn't come too.


As I said, the only reason I used mexicans were because that's what I'm familiar with. You could substitute any applicable group, and I wasn't hinking there was some magic quota :P And I'm not saying that this family shouldn't come here!! I'm just saying that they shouldn't use Asylum to do so.

2) The morality of the law itself / the judge's decision. You said that the law shouldn't apply to people like this because they're not persecuted. Going to school for a year is "no big deal." I said that, generically, being fined tens of thousands of dollars and having policemen show up every morning to take your kids to be indoctrinated in a belief system you vehemently disagree with DOES sound like persecution. The only reason you don't think they were persecuted is that you don't agree with their morals.


I don't think they were persecuted because it wasn't public-school or die!! They could have sent their kids to ANY school for that one year. They could have picked a nice little evangelical school, or a private school that taught a curriculum they agree with. They could have, you know, thought about the fact that home schooling is illegal in Germany before their kids were of schooling age. That's always a good thing too. Think of all that time and money and horrible indoctrination that could have been saved. The fines and police-marching are shitty, but it's not like they couldn't have started the application process before they had kids, or when their kids were nearing of-schooling age. Or did they think they'd be able to slip under the radar? I don't know. Either way, I think you do raise a good point how it could be considered persecution, but it's not like Germany teaches Nazi-ism and Atheism. Unless their kids are in middle school, they wouldn't even be learning controversial things like "evolution" (which I would presume as evangelicals they'd have an objection to). In this instance, I would not call it persecution. If it was a different country, I could possibly agree with you, but in this instance, I think Asylum was totally unnecessary.

So. Nice little summary for us there. :P
Still Empress of the Poofy Purple Pillow Pile Palace!!
Continued Love of my Aussie <3
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Homeschooling: German Family Gets Political Asylum in U.S. - 02/03/2010 10:30:01 PM 1480 Views
Looks like a win-win situation to me. - 02/03/2010 11:01:22 PM 759 Views
Exactly - 03/03/2010 08:54:10 AM 715 Views
yah...but...but.... - 03/03/2010 01:13:31 PM 625 Views
Germany does have a history of getting rid of people it doesn't like *NM* - 03/03/2010 02:08:37 PM 470 Views
Yawn. At least beckstcw was joking when he invoked Godwin's law below. I hope. *NM* - 03/03/2010 02:10:18 PM 387 Views
That is a load of crap - 03/03/2010 02:53:02 PM 469 Views
uhm, how would Germany be offending the US? - 03/03/2010 02:56:52 PM 432 Views
I meant in general not in this specfic case - 03/03/2010 02:59:01 PM 384 Views
ahh mk *NM* - 03/03/2010 03:09:39 PM 415 Views
Um. - 03/03/2010 02:57:53 PM 314 Views
But our religious beliefs and belief in allowing religious freedom is fair game? - 03/03/2010 03:09:48 PM 324 Views
Yes? - 03/03/2010 03:40:30 PM 302 Views
If you made fun of the Native Americans I would be offended - 03/03/2010 03:46:05 PM 545 Views
It's actually quite the opposite. - 03/03/2010 03:57:19 PM 521 Views
and I would say they trying to fix intolerance with more intolerance - 03/03/2010 04:13:49 PM 307 Views
That was probably the stupidest thing I ever saw you write - 03/03/2010 03:28:39 PM 477 Views
You were the one who said good riddance - 03/03/2010 03:43:24 PM 331 Views
It's the usual story of American ideology and European pragmatism. - 03/03/2010 03:52:51 PM 492 Views
exactly. - 03/03/2010 03:56:11 PM 434 Views
Yes, because I won't miss them much. - 03/03/2010 03:55:29 PM 520 Views
well said - 03/03/2010 06:34:18 PM 510 Views
I think it's outrageous they'd fine people for that - 02/03/2010 11:07:57 PM 770 Views
Re: Homeschooling: German Family Gets Political Asylum in U.S. - 03/03/2010 01:09:23 AM 894 Views
The socialization thing is mostly garbage - 03/03/2010 02:32:19 AM 766 Views
Yep, exactly. - 03/03/2010 02:41:14 AM 559 Views
Re: Yep, exactly. - 03/03/2010 03:12:48 AM 537 Views
Re: Yep, exactly. - 03/03/2010 03:34:33 AM 788 Views
Re: Yep, exactly. - 03/03/2010 04:34:30 AM 776 Views
*shrugs* I said it was anecdotal. I have no hard figures, only experiences. - 03/03/2010 03:28:29 AM 533 Views
The operative word IS mostly - 03/03/2010 04:33:20 AM 730 Views
'Mostly' is all that matters - 03/03/2010 05:46:01 AM 770 Views
Uhm, socialization is incredibly important. - 03/03/2010 06:03:30 AM 739 Views
Yes, but you don't need to be taught to do it - 03/03/2010 06:47:06 AM 689 Views
cats aren't pack or herd animals - 03/03/2010 06:53:02 AM 676 Views
Something of an inside joke, sorry - 03/03/2010 07:41:50 AM 721 Views
I'm a homeschooling parent. - 03/03/2010 07:09:03 PM 704 Views
LOL, we seem well represented on this site - 03/03/2010 10:02:16 PM 787 Views
to jump on the "I was homeschooled and I have social skills" bandwagon... - 03/03/2010 06:27:05 AM 1090 Views
I think you may be missing some things - 03/03/2010 02:48:27 PM 824 Views
Re: I think you may be missing some things - 05/03/2010 12:16:37 AM 896 Views
I was homeschooled through grade 12, and my mom has done pro bono legal work for HSLDA. - 03/03/2010 02:20:38 AM 679 Views
I agree that it can be a very good option for some families - 03/03/2010 04:42:21 AM 813 Views
Re: I agree that it can be a very good option for some families - 03/03/2010 05:16:17 AM 650 Views
It depends on the public school. - 03/03/2010 05:23:09 AM 685 Views
Re: It depends on the public school. - 03/03/2010 05:45:07 AM 686 Views
"done right" is not always the case - 03/03/2010 05:58:26 AM 518 Views
Re: "done right" is not always the case - 03/03/2010 06:14:43 AM 836 Views
Re: "done right" is not always the case - 03/03/2010 06:31:04 AM 746 Views
Well let's talk stats then. - 03/03/2010 06:55:14 AM 707 Views
please do not get me started on statistis. - 03/03/2010 07:11:19 AM 625 Views
Re: please do not get me started on statistis. - 03/03/2010 07:28:41 AM 681 Views
you missed my point. - 03/03/2010 01:10:26 PM 698 Views
You seem to be ignoring the matter of qualified teachers. - 03/03/2010 01:29:01 PM 662 Views
Your comments on public school educations have rather limited relevance to other countries, though. - 03/03/2010 09:53:30 AM 759 Views
+ ^ *NM* - 03/03/2010 01:11:04 PM 385 Views
While I support homeschooling, this is ridiculous. - 03/03/2010 04:48:40 AM 813 Views
Meh. - 03/03/2010 05:20:50 AM 739 Views
one year in a public school - 03/03/2010 05:32:13 AM 791 Views
Re: one year in a public school - 03/03/2010 05:58:48 AM 561 Views
No, I think i will nitpick. - 03/03/2010 06:11:44 AM 691 Views
This is getting off track and wasting time. - 03/03/2010 06:26:36 AM 727 Views
I'm not even certain it's 100% legal. - 03/03/2010 06:34:44 AM 512 Views
Yes, but we can't argue abuse of law. - 03/03/2010 06:51:23 AM 624 Views
I only used Mexicans because I'm from Arizona - 03/03/2010 07:04:29 AM 751 Views
I think I have the gist of it, - 03/03/2010 07:17:40 AM 644 Views
we haven't heard anything about their beliefs for me to think they're stupid. - 03/03/2010 02:54:25 PM 733 Views
According to the Süddeutsche Zeitung... - 03/03/2010 03:38:13 PM 653 Views
they don't have private christian schools in germany? - 03/03/2010 03:54:07 PM 610 Views
Not many, I dare say, but a few probably. *NM* - 03/03/2010 03:59:11 PM 410 Views
Say what? - 03/03/2010 09:38:40 AM 601 Views
Being able raise your kids by your beliefs is a frivolous matter? - 03/03/2010 03:21:23 PM 536 Views
Germany is not saying "you can't raise your kids by your beliefs" - 03/03/2010 03:31:01 PM 660 Views
It's not a recent law, and supposedly other German families have moved to France and the UK. - 03/03/2010 03:45:56 PM 750 Views
figured that. - 03/03/2010 03:58:57 PM 636 Views
I think that would fly in very face of political assylum - 03/03/2010 04:12:48 PM 702 Views
Yes, but they did not need political asylum. - 03/03/2010 04:28:16 PM 716 Views
how is that different then other political refuges we allow in? - 03/03/2010 04:55:14 PM 629 Views
I believe Legolas linked an article - 03/03/2010 04:57:09 PM 610 Views
I never saw the link - 03/03/2010 05:08:21 PM 523 Views
I'm not sure if they offered "formal" assurances or some such - 03/03/2010 05:21:54 PM 446 Views
Compared to not being able to feed your kids, yes, it is. - 03/03/2010 03:42:58 PM 533 Views
yes but we don't grant political assylum for being hungry - 03/03/2010 04:34:23 PM 619 Views
no we don't. - 03/03/2010 04:50:31 PM 492 Views
Do you have a better system? - 03/03/2010 05:05:42 PM 782 Views
Immigration processes could certainly use some reform - 03/03/2010 05:32:22 PM 583 Views
The system sucks, big government typically does not function well - 03/03/2010 05:48:25 PM 520 Views
we probably would all be better off... - 03/03/2010 07:27:28 PM 638 Views
good because Texas is taken - 03/03/2010 07:47:46 PM 643 Views
No, true, that was about the illegal immigrants. - 03/03/2010 09:53:18 PM 744 Views
Absolutely. - 03/03/2010 09:32:41 AM 721 Views
Doesn't matter why, but all parents should have the right to homeschool..... - 03/03/2010 04:48:57 AM 561 Views
there are far worse faults for a country to have *NM* - 03/03/2010 05:14:11 AM 383 Views
That whole thing is pretty silly - 03/03/2010 12:18:45 PM 793 Views
Re: socialising. - 03/03/2010 06:13:49 PM 754 Views
And then there are secular people like myself, who - 03/03/2010 06:44:13 PM 696 Views
I think I'd do that too, if I had the patience. - 03/03/2010 06:45:20 PM 572 Views
*agree* - 03/03/2010 07:41:56 PM 753 Views
That is the catagory I'm in. - 03/03/2010 07:46:12 PM 613 Views
Re: probably more likely - 04/03/2010 12:19:37 AM 762 Views
I am opposed to homeschooling but believe it should be a legal option. - 03/03/2010 02:32:34 PM 703 Views
I think you make a good point here - 03/03/2010 05:22:59 PM 743 Views
but...but...parents can't educate their children outside of school!! - 03/03/2010 05:40:30 PM 670 Views
I don't agree with them I just support their right to be wrong - 03/03/2010 06:04:11 PM 717 Views
The statistics are flawed, as I've noted above - 03/03/2010 07:07:11 PM 581 Views
Your views on this are not fact-driven - 03/03/2010 09:13:07 PM 759 Views
No, what you're saying is that my answer isn't driven by STATISTICS. - 03/03/2010 10:36:50 PM 685 Views
Granted, but there is no obvious source for bias - 03/03/2010 10:57:19 PM 615 Views
Again, I'm not saying it applies to everyone - 03/03/2010 11:51:17 PM 528 Views
Re: Again, I'm not saying it applies to everyone - 04/03/2010 12:16:29 AM 766 Views
You mean aside from the fact that you are already arguing about it? - 04/03/2010 12:14:02 AM 522 Views
Yes, I mentioned this in my reply to Tom, see below... - 04/03/2010 12:19:42 AM 656 Views
Fair enough - 04/03/2010 12:21:41 AM 571 Views
Re: Fair enough - 04/03/2010 12:37:06 AM 981 Views
Re: Fair enough - 04/03/2010 09:39:38 AM 686 Views
Umm Massachusetts did have slavery in 1717 - 03/03/2010 02:55:25 PM 619 Views
Wow....so this got the board going. A question for everyone... - 03/03/2010 06:02:57 PM 804 Views
I think it is incumbent on the state to show that kids are being in some way harmed - 03/03/2010 06:07:13 PM 721 Views
Interesting - 03/03/2010 06:25:43 PM 825 Views
I never said there should be no limits on what parents should be able to do - 03/03/2010 06:38:53 PM 774 Views
What you said was: - 03/03/2010 06:51:26 PM 761 Views
I think it's safe to say teaching your kids to be little sociopaths qualifies as harm. - 03/03/2010 09:17:48 PM 544 Views
I think so too - 03/03/2010 10:46:41 PM 773 Views
Yes they do. Provided... - 03/03/2010 07:04:46 PM 645 Views
One of the reasons... - 03/03/2010 07:40:54 PM 727 Views
that is fair enough - 03/03/2010 07:51:31 PM 612 Views
Hmmph. Inappropriate action on the part of the judge who allowed them to stay. - 03/03/2010 06:22:08 PM 667 Views
I agree completely with this. *NM* - 03/03/2010 06:42:01 PM 411 Views
agree. *NM* - 03/03/2010 06:49:01 PM 272 Views
You just skip the part where they have to show they are being persecuted - 03/03/2010 06:54:20 PM 791 Views
"Persecution" can be a matter of opinion, though. - 03/03/2010 07:04:46 PM 768 Views
officers will track down kids ditching school here. - 03/03/2010 07:17:57 PM 812 Views
I'm not sure what they do in Canada - 03/03/2010 10:49:00 PM 670 Views
Agrees - 03/03/2010 06:54:59 PM 632 Views
New Cosmic Powers of the admins - 03/03/2010 06:52:57 PM 549 Views
It is the Power of the Ben™ *NM* - 03/03/2010 08:48:11 PM 401 Views
*walks in, looks around* - 03/03/2010 07:52:09 PM 740 Views
Re: *walks in, looks around* - 03/03/2010 09:25:46 PM 510 Views
What, no defending Germany today? *NM* - 03/03/2010 10:03:01 PM 408 Views
Even I need a day off *NM* - 04/03/2010 01:02:17 AM 394 Views
Re: *walks in, looks around* - 03/03/2010 10:33:24 PM 561 Views
Interesting - 03/03/2010 11:02:27 PM 741 Views
Am I recalling correctly that you know some German? - 03/03/2010 11:07:00 PM 694 Views
Sorry, nope. - 04/03/2010 09:14:49 PM 491 Views
Oh. Ah well. - 04/03/2010 09:23:11 PM 660 Views
One thing all of us homeschooled kids are missing is... - 04/03/2010 01:53:22 AM 619 Views

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