Joel and I have been using the analogy 'herd of cats' a lot recently in our back-and-forths, to describe the general lack of cohesiveness on the left, considering we've also been joking recently about how we tend to continue talking at each other in long abandoned threads we hijacked, I shouldn't have expected anyone to catch that joke
Being something of a cat person, I probably overly relate human and feline behavior, but I tend to think we act more like cats then say, sheep. Or should I say, ideally we want people to act more like cats than sheep, and I am not sure packing kids into a classroom encourages that.
Yes, I've usually found most people have a solid attention span for around 20-30 minutes and a lesser span for around an hour, I'm not sure this represents a flaw in standardized testing, just the education system. I've never had a 'standardized education' and I seemed to have done fine on standardized tests, though admittedly I might have occassionally underscored since sometimes I'd see stuff that I hadn't been taught, I don't think I knew what a 'preposition' was until I was 20, it just hadn't come up. Anyway, I'm not really sure the flaw lies in the concept of standardized testing, but in the method in which it's applied. Currently teachers fear it, because it causes stress, as opposed to representing an incentive. I don't like the punishment approach in teaching, so I don't like it for teachers either. A bonus system seems better, with the tests broad enough in the question pool that they can't teach to the test, this is not hard, the solutions are known and easy, but you have two (or more) competing political ideologies who seem to have a vested interest in making the alternative options fail and theirs appear to succeed more than in making their's genuinely work.
Sorry to hear that. Well, you're certainly welcome to argue, I never mind chatting with polite persons about almost anything. Keep in mind though, that most homeschoolers are understandably defensive on this issue, as I mentioned in an earlier post, we tend to view this 'lack of social interaction' thingy as about one step up from comments of the 'fried chicken and watermelon' or 'jocks are dumb' variety. A cheap red herring to try to detract from our academic credentials. The reality of the situation is obvious, students whose parents are heavily interested in their education outperform students whose parents are not, on average. So fundamentally we outperform simply because parents who homeschool self-select essentially out of a pool who are basically by definition very interested in their kid's schooling. That's really the long and short of it, but I think we tend to benefit a bit since our non-jail atmosphere is a bit less likely to make someone have a distaste for schooling, and by association, learning.
Being something of a cat person, I probably overly relate human and feline behavior, but I tend to think we act more like cats then say, sheep. Or should I say, ideally we want people to act more like cats than sheep, and I am not sure packing kids into a classroom encourages that.recess used to get a good chunk of time though
And teachers used to give us breaks during class. This is part of why I abhor standardized testing. It's put a lot more strain on the teachers. My mom can't afford to give her kids breaks, because her assenine principal will get on her for not "using the time productively" (Because we all know 6 yr olds can focus for hours at at time on learning and not playing)
And teachers used to give us breaks during class. This is part of why I abhor standardized testing. It's put a lot more strain on the teachers. My mom can't afford to give her kids breaks, because her assenine principal will get on her for not "using the time productively" (Because we all know 6 yr olds can focus for hours at at time on learning and not playing)Yes, I've usually found most people have a solid attention span for around 20-30 minutes and a lesser span for around an hour, I'm not sure this represents a flaw in standardized testing, just the education system. I've never had a 'standardized education' and I seemed to have done fine on standardized tests, though admittedly I might have occassionally underscored since sometimes I'd see stuff that I hadn't been taught, I don't think I knew what a 'preposition' was until I was 20, it just hadn't come up. Anyway, I'm not really sure the flaw lies in the concept of standardized testing, but in the method in which it's applied. Currently teachers fear it, because it causes stress, as opposed to representing an incentive. I don't like the punishment approach in teaching, so I don't like it for teachers either. A bonus system seems better, with the tests broad enough in the question pool that they can't teach to the test, this is not hard, the solutions are known and easy, but you have two (or more) competing political ideologies who seem to have a vested interest in making the alternative options fail and theirs appear to succeed more than in making their's genuinely work.
and if you didn't see the part where "I agree with you", it is there
My only point was a child in school will have socialization to some degree by default. A home schooled child may not. That was the only thing I was trying to say 
My only point was a child in school will have socialization to some degree by default. A home schooled child may not. That was the only thing I was trying to say 
I know, I was just saying
like i said, I was mostly just being a pain
I've had a bad day and have felt the need to distract from it by arguing.
like i said, I was mostly just being a pain
I've had a bad day and have felt the need to distract from it by arguing.Sorry to hear that. Well, you're certainly welcome to argue, I never mind chatting with polite persons about almost anything. Keep in mind though, that most homeschoolers are understandably defensive on this issue, as I mentioned in an earlier post, we tend to view this 'lack of social interaction' thingy as about one step up from comments of the 'fried chicken and watermelon' or 'jocks are dumb' variety. A cheap red herring to try to detract from our academic credentials. The reality of the situation is obvious, students whose parents are heavily interested in their education outperform students whose parents are not, on average. So fundamentally we outperform simply because parents who homeschool self-select essentially out of a pool who are basically by definition very interested in their kid's schooling. That's really the long and short of it, but I think we tend to benefit a bit since our non-jail atmosphere is a bit less likely to make someone have a distaste for schooling, and by association, learning.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
Homeschooling: German Family Gets Political Asylum in U.S.
- 02/03/2010 10:30:01 PM
1542 Views
Looks like a win-win situation to me.
- 02/03/2010 11:01:22 PM
800 Views
Germany does have a history of getting rid of people it doesn't like *NM*
- 03/03/2010 02:08:37 PM
489 Views
Yawn. At least beckstcw was joking when he invoked Godwin's law below. I hope. *NM*
- 03/03/2010 02:10:18 PM
404 Views
That is a load of crap
- 03/03/2010 02:53:02 PM
489 Views
uhm, how would Germany be offending the US?
- 03/03/2010 02:56:52 PM
451 Views
Um.
- 03/03/2010 02:57:53 PM
336 Views
But our religious beliefs and belief in allowing religious freedom is fair game?
- 03/03/2010 03:09:48 PM
344 Views
Yes?
- 03/03/2010 03:40:30 PM
319 Views
If you made fun of the Native Americans I would be offended
- 03/03/2010 03:46:05 PM
567 Views
It's actually quite the opposite.
- 03/03/2010 03:57:19 PM
542 Views
and I would say they trying to fix intolerance with more intolerance
- 03/03/2010 04:13:49 PM
325 Views
That was probably the stupidest thing I ever saw you write
- 03/03/2010 03:28:39 PM
496 Views
You were the one who said good riddance
- 03/03/2010 03:43:24 PM
352 Views
It's the usual story of American ideology and European pragmatism.
- 03/03/2010 03:52:51 PM
510 Views
This is getting a bit off the discussion. Please keep it civil, everyone. *NM*
- 03/03/2010 06:55:11 PM
427 Views
Re: Homeschooling: German Family Gets Political Asylum in U.S.
- 03/03/2010 01:09:23 AM
947 Views
The socialization thing is mostly garbage
- 03/03/2010 02:32:19 AM
816 Views
Yep, exactly.
- 03/03/2010 02:41:14 AM
606 Views
Re: Yep, exactly.
- 03/03/2010 03:12:48 AM
591 Views
*shrugs* I said it was anecdotal. I have no hard figures, only experiences.
- 03/03/2010 03:28:29 AM
578 Views
The operative word IS mostly
- 03/03/2010 04:33:20 AM
777 Views
'Mostly' is all that matters
- 03/03/2010 05:46:01 AM
818 Views
Uhm, socialization is incredibly important.
- 03/03/2010 06:03:30 AM
782 Views
Yes, but you don't need to be taught to do it
- 03/03/2010 06:47:06 AM
754 Views
cats aren't pack or herd animals
- 03/03/2010 06:53:02 AM
732 Views
- 03/03/2010 06:53:02 AM
732 Views
Something of an inside joke, sorry
- 03/03/2010 07:41:50 AM
766 Views
us closely associated with schools are sensitive on the issue too
- 03/03/2010 01:05:27 PM
582 Views
- 03/03/2010 01:05:27 PM
582 Views
Re: us closely associated with schools are sensitive on the issue too
- 03/03/2010 10:19:21 PM
651 Views
- 03/03/2010 10:19:21 PM
651 Views
I would agree that households with two working parnets shouldn't home school *NM*
- 03/03/2010 03:22:51 PM
407 Views
to jump on the "I was homeschooled and I have social skills" bandwagon...
- 03/03/2010 06:27:05 AM
1160 Views
I was homeschooled through grade 12, and my mom has done pro bono legal work for HSLDA.
- 03/03/2010 02:20:38 AM
739 Views
I agree that it can be a very good option for some families
- 03/03/2010 04:42:21 AM
858 Views
Re: I agree that it can be a very good option for some families
- 03/03/2010 05:16:17 AM
700 Views
It depends on the public school.
- 03/03/2010 05:23:09 AM
746 Views
Re: It depends on the public school.
- 03/03/2010 05:45:07 AM
748 Views
"done right" is not always the case
- 03/03/2010 05:58:26 AM
558 Views
Re: "done right" is not always the case
- 03/03/2010 06:14:43 AM
894 Views
Re: "done right" is not always the case
- 03/03/2010 06:31:04 AM
803 Views
Well let's talk stats then.
- 03/03/2010 06:55:14 AM
754 Views
please do not get me started on statistis.
- 03/03/2010 07:11:19 AM
668 Views
Your comments on public school educations have rather limited relevance to other countries, though.
- 03/03/2010 09:53:30 AM
805 Views
While I support homeschooling, this is ridiculous.
- 03/03/2010 04:48:40 AM
854 Views
Meh.
- 03/03/2010 05:20:50 AM
795 Views
one year in a public school
- 03/03/2010 05:32:13 AM
841 Views
Re: one year in a public school
- 03/03/2010 05:58:48 AM
601 Views
No, I think i will nitpick.
- 03/03/2010 06:11:44 AM
741 Views
This is getting off track and wasting time.
- 03/03/2010 06:26:36 AM
775 Views
I'm not even certain it's 100% legal.
- 03/03/2010 06:34:44 AM
559 Views
Yes, but we can't argue abuse of law.
- 03/03/2010 06:51:23 AM
681 Views
I only used Mexicans because I'm from Arizona
- 03/03/2010 07:04:29 AM
799 Views
- 03/03/2010 07:04:29 AM
799 Views
I think I have the gist of it,
- 03/03/2010 07:17:40 AM
690 Views
we haven't heard anything about their beliefs for me to think they're stupid.
- 03/03/2010 02:54:25 PM
785 Views
According to the Süddeutsche Zeitung...
- 03/03/2010 03:38:13 PM
698 Views
Say what?
- 03/03/2010 09:38:40 AM
654 Views
Being able raise your kids by your beliefs is a frivolous matter?
- 03/03/2010 03:21:23 PM
581 Views
Germany is not saying "you can't raise your kids by your beliefs"
- 03/03/2010 03:31:01 PM
701 Views
It's not a recent law, and supposedly other German families have moved to France and the UK.
- 03/03/2010 03:45:56 PM
797 Views
I think that would fly in very face of political assylum
- 03/03/2010 04:12:48 PM
750 Views
Yes, but they did not need political asylum.
- 03/03/2010 04:28:16 PM
763 Views
how is that different then other political refuges we allow in?
- 03/03/2010 04:55:14 PM
685 Views
I believe Legolas linked an article
- 03/03/2010 04:57:09 PM
654 Views
I never saw the link
- 03/03/2010 05:08:21 PM
567 Views
I'm not sure if they offered "formal" assurances or some such
- 03/03/2010 05:21:54 PM
488 Views
that was a mayor, I doubt he would have the final word on the issue
- 03/03/2010 05:46:22 PM
549 Views
You don't have a law about removing children from parental custody? At all?
- 03/03/2010 09:43:15 PM
702 Views
They can take your kids from for not sending them to school but not for home schooling them
- 03/03/2010 10:35:48 PM
710 Views
Compared to not being able to feed your kids, yes, it is.
- 03/03/2010 03:42:58 PM
579 Views
yes but we don't grant political assylum for being hungry
- 03/03/2010 04:34:23 PM
660 Views
no we don't.
- 03/03/2010 04:50:31 PM
537 Views
Do you have a better system?
- 03/03/2010 05:05:42 PM
827 Views
Immigration processes could certainly use some reform
- 03/03/2010 05:32:22 PM
633 Views
The system sucks, big government typically does not function well
- 03/03/2010 05:48:25 PM
574 Views
Oh, and did you miss the part where the federal government is appealing the decision? *NM*
- 03/03/2010 09:40:42 AM
410 Views
I would consider the threat of losing my children because of my beliefs to be a real threat *NM*
- 03/03/2010 02:54:08 PM
452 Views
Doesn't matter why, but all parents should have the right to homeschool.....
- 03/03/2010 04:48:57 AM
615 Views
That whole thing is pretty silly
- 03/03/2010 12:18:45 PM
839 Views
Re: socialising.
- 03/03/2010 06:13:49 PM
799 Views
I am opposed to homeschooling but believe it should be a legal option.
- 03/03/2010 02:32:34 PM
771 Views
I think you make a good point here
- 03/03/2010 05:22:59 PM
786 Views
but...but...parents can't educate their children outside of school!!
- 03/03/2010 05:40:30 PM
714 Views
I don't agree with them I just support their right to be wrong
- 03/03/2010 06:04:11 PM
766 Views
The statistics are flawed, as I've noted above
- 03/03/2010 07:07:11 PM
623 Views
they tend to beat private schools as well would should flatten out the demographics
- 03/03/2010 07:53:38 PM
710 Views
Your views on this are not fact-driven
- 03/03/2010 09:13:07 PM
807 Views
No, what you're saying is that my answer isn't driven by STATISTICS.
- 03/03/2010 10:36:50 PM
737 Views
Granted, but there is no obvious source for bias
- 03/03/2010 10:57:19 PM
666 Views
You mean aside from the fact that you are already arguing about it?
- 04/03/2010 12:14:02 AM
563 Views
Yes, I mentioned this in my reply to Tom, see below...
- 04/03/2010 12:19:42 AM
703 Views
And the wikipedia article you pointed me to had a different study that contradicts your point.
- 03/03/2010 10:42:54 PM
678 Views
Religious or *moral* instruction
- 03/03/2010 10:49:48 PM
752 Views
I haven't really "met" you the way I meant it in that reply
- 03/03/2010 11:48:11 PM
556 Views
Granted but for our purposes I think people on this site would qualify
- 04/03/2010 12:05:03 AM
725 Views
Umm Massachusetts did have slavery in 1717
- 03/03/2010 02:55:25 PM
665 Views
His argument on the law of Germany is a bad one generally, though, not just for that reason.
- 03/03/2010 03:31:00 PM
582 Views
Wow....so this got the board going. A question for everyone...
- 03/03/2010 06:02:57 PM
849 Views
I think it is incumbent on the state to show that kids are being in some way harmed
- 03/03/2010 06:07:13 PM
777 Views
Interesting
- 03/03/2010 06:25:43 PM
871 Views
I never said there should be no limits on what parents should be able to do
- 03/03/2010 06:38:53 PM
825 Views
I think it's safe to say teaching your kids to be little sociopaths qualifies as harm.
- 03/03/2010 09:17:48 PM
594 Views
I think so too
- 03/03/2010 10:46:41 PM
824 Views
I think the problem there was it was seen as inherently political, that, and showing harm.
- 03/03/2010 11:44:21 PM
644 Views
Yes they do. Provided...
- 03/03/2010 07:04:46 PM
692 Views
There is a reason why education until 18 (or 16, depending) is not merely a right, but a duty.
- 03/03/2010 10:00:53 PM
762 Views
Hmmph. Inappropriate action on the part of the judge who allowed them to stay.
- 03/03/2010 06:22:08 PM
721 Views
You just skip the part where they have to show they are being persecuted
- 03/03/2010 06:54:20 PM
840 Views
As I said, most people would prefer to have their safety threatened to losing their kids. *NM*
- 06/03/2010 10:14:52 PM
479 Views
*walks in, looks around*
- 03/03/2010 07:52:09 PM
796 Views
Interesting
- 03/03/2010 11:02:27 PM
786 Views

