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I think it's safe to say teaching your kids to be little sociopaths qualifies as harm. Joel Send a noteboard - 03/03/2010 09:17:48 PM
Since I still haven't been to bed after work and still owe you and Isaac a response apiece elsewhere I'll limit myself to saying that, and that I agree with Celia and Glieseian (or random thoughts as it is now, but I still think of people by their wotmania names, which I'm glad to see you're still using; makes things easier for my aging addled brain. :P) Compulsory education is a reasonable civic good, I'm inclined to agree, but there's nothing that says it has to be a compulsory STATE education. Home schooling doesn't allow you to just rubber stamp your illiterate 3 year old "HS graduate" after all; there are standards and curricula to satisfy (which, ironically, opens up a whole separate can of worms, because I'm also inclined to say a number of things these parents probably don't want their kids taught SHOULD be required curricula from SOME source. )

But by and large, I agree with rt and with Jeo by implication: Even the most ardent supporters of "the nanny state" don't take it literally; parents raise kids, not the Ayn Rand School for Free Thinkers Thinking As We Think Free. If the parents are meeting the kids educational needs there's no reason for the state to force its way in there or anywhere else unless there's real reason to think the kids are being harmed. Judging by the statistics on things like placement testing, the National Spelling Bee and the ever popular Jeopardy Teen Tournament it seems a better argument could be made for the position taken by several people in this thread: That public rather than home "education" does American kids the greater disservice.

OK, I said more than I meant, and I'm far from done (since we finally have a thread that looks like a thread should look, on a subject worth reasoned and civil debate between broad perspectives; has Cannoli become the wotmaniaest RAFOlk...?) but I need to sleep before I can discuss it intelligently.

Sorry I've not been by Facebook recently, but hope you and the family are well; one of these days we need to swap emails or something (or Skype, delicious wonderful Skype that lets me actually TALK to people in other countries for free. :))
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
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LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
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Homeschooling: German Family Gets Political Asylum in U.S. - 02/03/2010 10:30:01 PM 1620 Views
Looks like a win-win situation to me. - 02/03/2010 11:01:22 PM 864 Views
Exactly - 03/03/2010 08:54:10 AM 826 Views
yah...but...but.... - 03/03/2010 01:13:31 PM 747 Views
Germany does have a history of getting rid of people it doesn't like *NM* - 03/03/2010 02:08:37 PM 518 Views
Yawn. At least beckstcw was joking when he invoked Godwin's law below. I hope. *NM* - 03/03/2010 02:10:18 PM 437 Views
That is a load of crap - 03/03/2010 02:53:02 PM 521 Views
uhm, how would Germany be offending the US? - 03/03/2010 02:56:52 PM 489 Views
I meant in general not in this specfic case - 03/03/2010 02:59:01 PM 427 Views
ahh mk *NM* - 03/03/2010 03:09:39 PM 467 Views
Um. - 03/03/2010 02:57:53 PM 365 Views
But our religious beliefs and belief in allowing religious freedom is fair game? - 03/03/2010 03:09:48 PM 371 Views
Yes? - 03/03/2010 03:40:30 PM 347 Views
If you made fun of the Native Americans I would be offended - 03/03/2010 03:46:05 PM 598 Views
It's actually quite the opposite. - 03/03/2010 03:57:19 PM 574 Views
and I would say they trying to fix intolerance with more intolerance - 03/03/2010 04:13:49 PM 359 Views
That was probably the stupidest thing I ever saw you write - 03/03/2010 03:28:39 PM 530 Views
You were the one who said good riddance - 03/03/2010 03:43:24 PM 379 Views
It's the usual story of American ideology and European pragmatism. - 03/03/2010 03:52:51 PM 537 Views
exactly. - 03/03/2010 03:56:11 PM 486 Views
Yes, because I won't miss them much. - 03/03/2010 03:55:29 PM 571 Views
well said - 03/03/2010 06:34:18 PM 566 Views
I think it's outrageous they'd fine people for that - 02/03/2010 11:07:57 PM 890 Views
Re: Homeschooling: German Family Gets Political Asylum in U.S. - 03/03/2010 01:09:23 AM 1018 Views
The socialization thing is mostly garbage - 03/03/2010 02:32:19 AM 880 Views
Yep, exactly. - 03/03/2010 02:41:14 AM 677 Views
Re: Yep, exactly. - 03/03/2010 03:12:48 AM 652 Views
Re: Yep, exactly. - 03/03/2010 03:34:33 AM 904 Views
Re: Yep, exactly. - 03/03/2010 04:34:30 AM 896 Views
*shrugs* I said it was anecdotal. I have no hard figures, only experiences. - 03/03/2010 03:28:29 AM 648 Views
The operative word IS mostly - 03/03/2010 04:33:20 AM 845 Views
'Mostly' is all that matters - 03/03/2010 05:46:01 AM 879 Views
Uhm, socialization is incredibly important. - 03/03/2010 06:03:30 AM 854 Views
Yes, but you don't need to be taught to do it - 03/03/2010 06:47:06 AM 817 Views
cats aren't pack or herd animals - 03/03/2010 06:53:02 AM 813 Views
Something of an inside joke, sorry - 03/03/2010 07:41:50 AM 830 Views
I'm a homeschooling parent. - 03/03/2010 07:09:03 PM 822 Views
LOL, we seem well represented on this site - 03/03/2010 10:02:16 PM 929 Views
to jump on the "I was homeschooled and I have social skills" bandwagon... - 03/03/2010 06:27:05 AM 1239 Views
I think you may be missing some things - 03/03/2010 02:48:27 PM 935 Views
Re: I think you may be missing some things - 05/03/2010 12:16:37 AM 1017 Views
I was homeschooled through grade 12, and my mom has done pro bono legal work for HSLDA. - 03/03/2010 02:20:38 AM 804 Views
I agree that it can be a very good option for some families - 03/03/2010 04:42:21 AM 929 Views
Re: I agree that it can be a very good option for some families - 03/03/2010 05:16:17 AM 766 Views
It depends on the public school. - 03/03/2010 05:23:09 AM 809 Views
Re: It depends on the public school. - 03/03/2010 05:45:07 AM 819 Views
"done right" is not always the case - 03/03/2010 05:58:26 AM 631 Views
Re: "done right" is not always the case - 03/03/2010 06:14:43 AM 957 Views
Re: "done right" is not always the case - 03/03/2010 06:31:04 AM 872 Views
Well let's talk stats then. - 03/03/2010 06:55:14 AM 816 Views
please do not get me started on statistis. - 03/03/2010 07:11:19 AM 732 Views
Re: please do not get me started on statistis. - 03/03/2010 07:28:41 AM 789 Views
you missed my point. - 03/03/2010 01:10:26 PM 810 Views
You seem to be ignoring the matter of qualified teachers. - 03/03/2010 01:29:01 PM 774 Views
Your comments on public school educations have rather limited relevance to other countries, though. - 03/03/2010 09:53:30 AM 882 Views
+ ^ *NM* - 03/03/2010 01:11:04 PM 438 Views
While I support homeschooling, this is ridiculous. - 03/03/2010 04:48:40 AM 929 Views
Meh. - 03/03/2010 05:20:50 AM 864 Views
one year in a public school - 03/03/2010 05:32:13 AM 917 Views
Re: one year in a public school - 03/03/2010 05:58:48 AM 673 Views
No, I think i will nitpick. - 03/03/2010 06:11:44 AM 822 Views
This is getting off track and wasting time. - 03/03/2010 06:26:36 AM 843 Views
I'm not even certain it's 100% legal. - 03/03/2010 06:34:44 AM 622 Views
Yes, but we can't argue abuse of law. - 03/03/2010 06:51:23 AM 743 Views
I only used Mexicans because I'm from Arizona - 03/03/2010 07:04:29 AM 877 Views
I think I have the gist of it, - 03/03/2010 07:17:40 AM 754 Views
we haven't heard anything about their beliefs for me to think they're stupid. - 03/03/2010 02:54:25 PM 861 Views
According to the Süddeutsche Zeitung... - 03/03/2010 03:38:13 PM 765 Views
they don't have private christian schools in germany? - 03/03/2010 03:54:07 PM 730 Views
Not many, I dare say, but a few probably. *NM* - 03/03/2010 03:59:11 PM 462 Views
Say what? - 03/03/2010 09:38:40 AM 723 Views
Being able raise your kids by your beliefs is a frivolous matter? - 03/03/2010 03:21:23 PM 662 Views
Germany is not saying "you can't raise your kids by your beliefs" - 03/03/2010 03:31:01 PM 770 Views
It's not a recent law, and supposedly other German families have moved to France and the UK. - 03/03/2010 03:45:56 PM 860 Views
figured that. - 03/03/2010 03:58:57 PM 747 Views
I think that would fly in very face of political assylum - 03/03/2010 04:12:48 PM 818 Views
Yes, but they did not need political asylum. - 03/03/2010 04:28:16 PM 822 Views
how is that different then other political refuges we allow in? - 03/03/2010 04:55:14 PM 743 Views
I believe Legolas linked an article - 03/03/2010 04:57:09 PM 728 Views
I never saw the link - 03/03/2010 05:08:21 PM 627 Views
I'm not sure if they offered "formal" assurances or some such - 03/03/2010 05:21:54 PM 563 Views
Compared to not being able to feed your kids, yes, it is. - 03/03/2010 03:42:58 PM 650 Views
yes but we don't grant political assylum for being hungry - 03/03/2010 04:34:23 PM 733 Views
no we don't. - 03/03/2010 04:50:31 PM 598 Views
Do you have a better system? - 03/03/2010 05:05:42 PM 892 Views
Immigration processes could certainly use some reform - 03/03/2010 05:32:22 PM 694 Views
The system sucks, big government typically does not function well - 03/03/2010 05:48:25 PM 647 Views
we probably would all be better off... - 03/03/2010 07:27:28 PM 743 Views
good because Texas is taken - 03/03/2010 07:47:46 PM 767 Views
No, true, that was about the illegal immigrants. - 03/03/2010 09:53:18 PM 862 Views
Absolutely. - 03/03/2010 09:32:41 AM 830 Views
Doesn't matter why, but all parents should have the right to homeschool..... - 03/03/2010 04:48:57 AM 687 Views
there are far worse faults for a country to have *NM* - 03/03/2010 05:14:11 AM 441 Views
That whole thing is pretty silly - 03/03/2010 12:18:45 PM 910 Views
Re: socialising. - 03/03/2010 06:13:49 PM 865 Views
And then there are secular people like myself, who - 03/03/2010 06:44:13 PM 821 Views
I think I'd do that too, if I had the patience. - 03/03/2010 06:45:20 PM 689 Views
*agree* - 03/03/2010 07:41:56 PM 859 Views
That is the catagory I'm in. - 03/03/2010 07:46:12 PM 751 Views
Re: probably more likely - 04/03/2010 12:19:37 AM 873 Views
I am opposed to homeschooling but believe it should be a legal option. - 03/03/2010 02:32:34 PM 838 Views
I think you make a good point here - 03/03/2010 05:22:59 PM 849 Views
but...but...parents can't educate their children outside of school!! - 03/03/2010 05:40:30 PM 777 Views
I don't agree with them I just support their right to be wrong - 03/03/2010 06:04:11 PM 839 Views
The statistics are flawed, as I've noted above - 03/03/2010 07:07:11 PM 694 Views
Your views on this are not fact-driven - 03/03/2010 09:13:07 PM 872 Views
No, what you're saying is that my answer isn't driven by STATISTICS. - 03/03/2010 10:36:50 PM 809 Views
Granted, but there is no obvious source for bias - 03/03/2010 10:57:19 PM 738 Views
Again, I'm not saying it applies to everyone - 03/03/2010 11:51:17 PM 649 Views
Re: Again, I'm not saying it applies to everyone - 04/03/2010 12:16:29 AM 889 Views
You mean aside from the fact that you are already arguing about it? - 04/03/2010 12:14:02 AM 624 Views
Yes, I mentioned this in my reply to Tom, see below... - 04/03/2010 12:19:42 AM 769 Views
Fair enough - 04/03/2010 12:21:41 AM 673 Views
Re: Fair enough - 04/03/2010 12:37:06 AM 1111 Views
Re: Fair enough - 04/03/2010 09:39:38 AM 803 Views
Umm Massachusetts did have slavery in 1717 - 03/03/2010 02:55:25 PM 735 Views
Wow....so this got the board going. A question for everyone... - 03/03/2010 06:02:57 PM 914 Views
I think it is incumbent on the state to show that kids are being in some way harmed - 03/03/2010 06:07:13 PM 852 Views
Interesting - 03/03/2010 06:25:43 PM 944 Views
I never said there should be no limits on what parents should be able to do - 03/03/2010 06:38:53 PM 890 Views
What you said was: - 03/03/2010 06:51:26 PM 907 Views
I think it's safe to say teaching your kids to be little sociopaths qualifies as harm. - 03/03/2010 09:17:48 PM 664 Views
I think so too - 03/03/2010 10:46:41 PM 899 Views
Yes they do. Provided... - 03/03/2010 07:04:46 PM 758 Views
One of the reasons... - 03/03/2010 07:40:54 PM 847 Views
that is fair enough - 03/03/2010 07:51:31 PM 723 Views
Hmmph. Inappropriate action on the part of the judge who allowed them to stay. - 03/03/2010 06:22:08 PM 790 Views
I agree completely with this. *NM* - 03/03/2010 06:42:01 PM 493 Views
agree. *NM* - 03/03/2010 06:49:01 PM 319 Views
You just skip the part where they have to show they are being persecuted - 03/03/2010 06:54:20 PM 910 Views
"Persecution" can be a matter of opinion, though. - 03/03/2010 07:04:46 PM 881 Views
officers will track down kids ditching school here. - 03/03/2010 07:17:57 PM 925 Views
I'm not sure what they do in Canada - 03/03/2010 10:49:00 PM 869 Views
Agrees - 03/03/2010 06:54:59 PM 753 Views
New Cosmic Powers of the admins - 03/03/2010 06:52:57 PM 656 Views
It is the Power of the Ben™ *NM* - 03/03/2010 08:48:11 PM 455 Views
*walks in, looks around* - 03/03/2010 07:52:09 PM 866 Views
Re: *walks in, looks around* - 03/03/2010 09:25:46 PM 643 Views
What, no defending Germany today? *NM* - 03/03/2010 10:03:01 PM 460 Views
Even I need a day off *NM* - 04/03/2010 01:02:17 AM 448 Views
Re: *walks in, looks around* - 03/03/2010 10:33:24 PM 683 Views
Interesting - 03/03/2010 11:02:27 PM 856 Views
Am I recalling correctly that you know some German? - 03/03/2010 11:07:00 PM 814 Views
Sorry, nope. - 04/03/2010 09:14:49 PM 618 Views
Oh. Ah well. - 04/03/2010 09:23:11 PM 769 Views
One thing all of us homeschooled kids are missing is... - 04/03/2010 01:53:22 AM 740 Views

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