It does, in so far as it makes appeals a necessary option.
Joel Send a noteboard - 05/03/2010 04:35:13 AM
They've been convicted on evidence, they can appeal on evidence, they can be released on evidence, the burden of proof is never on them. Shit Happens, but you can also be struck by lightning and realistically your odds of being sentenced to death for a murder you didn't commit are on par with those. We don't deal with vagaries, we deal only with cases, individual cases, always, always, always individual cases.
As for humane treatment in prison, that is totally unrelated in every way from how many of them are innocent, prisoners are treated humanely because hurting them achieves little but the debasement of civilization. First and foremost prison exists to protect society, then to punish where such punishment might achieve something and is humane, never for it's own sake.
To release prisoners of a certain percent arbitrarily and unspecifically being innocent, one would have to justify conviction on those same grounds, if 25% innocent was good enough for release, would 50% of domestic abusers being murderers be grounds for imprisonment on murder?
This is a nonsensical and pointless rhetorical argument, irrelevant because conviction can only be done to an individual person on an individual case. If we found out 10% of DNA prints gave false answers, that's not grounds for release when 8% wouldn't be, it's grounds for appeal, nothing else.
As for humane treatment in prison, that is totally unrelated in every way from how many of them are innocent, prisoners are treated humanely because hurting them achieves little but the debasement of civilization. First and foremost prison exists to protect society, then to punish where such punishment might achieve something and is humane, never for it's own sake.
To release prisoners of a certain percent arbitrarily and unspecifically being innocent, one would have to justify conviction on those same grounds, if 25% innocent was good enough for release, would 50% of domestic abusers being murderers be grounds for imprisonment on murder?
This is a nonsensical and pointless rhetorical argument, irrelevant because conviction can only be done to an individual person on an individual case. If we found out 10% of DNA prints gave false answers, that's not grounds for release when 8% wouldn't be, it's grounds for appeal, nothing else.
Though in the case of appellate courts the burden of proof is very much on the convicted to show their trial was improper in some way (refer again to the link, where evidence was proven to be withheld from the defense but a judge ruled that didn't justify a new trial; the burden of proof was clearly on the defense to show cause for a new trial, and when cause was shown it was deemed inadequate. ) Understand, I'm not saying we should let everyone go because we know some are innocent, or that knowing some are innocent is the only reason for decent treatment, just that knowing we will inevitably have a variable number of innocent convicts underscores the importance of treating them humanely (but not like they won a multi-year resort vacation. )
I strongly agree with your view of the penal system, but I don't believe our view is even remotely common. I only value punishment where it aids reform, but the very name of the "PENAL system" implies penalties have value in themselves. Further, because capital punishment is reserved for the most heinous crimes we often see it defended on the grounds that victims families deserve to know their Loved ones murderer is dead or something similar. I have reservations about how constructive feeding the desire for vengeance is, and that's the only peace I see death offering but permanent incarceration denying.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
A level-of-comfort question regarding imprisonment of mixed innocent and guilty groups.
- 05/03/2010 02:39:53 AM
326 Views
as things stands, I don't think we'd ever reach a level where that'd be necessary oO
- 05/03/2010 03:24:07 AM
205 Views
100%
- 05/03/2010 03:47:31 AM
212 Views
Law of averages says there are certainly many innocent people in prison.
- 05/03/2010 04:09:41 AM
198 Views
Doesn't matter
- 05/03/2010 04:22:19 AM
187 Views
It does, in so far as it makes appeals a necessary option.
- 05/03/2010 04:35:13 AM
190 Views
Clarification: X% of them definitely did not meet the standards of reasonable doubt.
- 05/03/2010 09:44:09 PM
171 Views
A relevant question; it seems to hinge on where one draws the line.
- 05/03/2010 04:19:34 AM
175 Views
I never really liked silly questions like this
- 05/03/2010 02:23:36 PM
205 Views
If there were 2,000,000 innocent and only 1 guilty, retrying everyone would not be practical.
- 05/03/2010 09:22:16 PM
177 Views
That's silly though
- 05/03/2010 09:39:53 PM
183 Views
Re: That's silly though
- 05/03/2010 11:11:50 PM
190 Views
Re: That's silly though
- 06/03/2010 12:11:06 AM
174 Views
what does the chance of reoffending have to do with guilt?
- 05/03/2010 10:02:21 PM
163 Views
Debt can be paid off, leaving the question of rehabilitation. *NM*
- 05/03/2010 10:32:38 PM
67 Views
I still don't see the realtionship to guilt
- 05/03/2010 10:59:28 PM
156 Views
Re: I still don't see the realtionship to guilt
- 05/03/2010 11:31:51 PM
170 Views
there is a reason they call it the justice system and not the rehabilation system
- 05/03/2010 11:33:55 PM
187 Views
It's called all kinds of things
- 06/03/2010 12:02:00 AM
185 Views
Re: It's called all kinds of things
- 06/03/2010 05:44:32 AM
175 Views
Well, we aren't going to agree at all (and I DID say it was opinion)
- 07/03/2010 09:00:37 AM
148 Views
