I believe I specifically said that's why we have appeals. Anyway, yes I read your Reed link, or re-read it, I familiar with the case, it is still being appealed, hence justice is still at work, the details of his specific case have never much interested me as I find abolitionists typically seem to think it's better to release murders than execute them, given an option, so I rarely trust their comments about conspiracies when the court seems to overrule them all the time and they seem to show up for every case. If it's overturned, justice obviously prevailed, if it isn't, and he's executed, I rather suspect justice will again have prevailed. Though obviously I don't want someone executed for a crime they didn't commit, you'll excuse me if I'm not crying tears over this particular scumbag who even if he didn't commit the crime, as I believe the evidence indicates, is hardly a model citizen. Of course, his other crimes and wrongdoings do not convict him of murder, but a jury did, and he's conviction has not been overturned so far. I have great faith in our legal system on criminal matters, and do not really like discussing ongoing cases.
Prisoners should be treated humanely, but not in an enviable state either, all emphasis on 'enviable' since we don't obviously want people saying 'gee, I wish I was in prison, how can I get in?' Execution is not inhumane.
Well, our view is common amongst lawyers and politicians ironically, since it's tends to be the default view except when someone is rabble-rousing for the public. Considering it's managed to hold this view for a long time now, and we are probably less 'lynchee' than we used to be, I would say most people, though emotion driven on these things, tend to be reasonable when they've cooled off, and our system seems to force that.
I would add, that while vengeance is a flawed motive for punishment, the reverse is also true, public rage and outcry or bloodlust does not mean we should let people go or improve their conditions. If some want to feel that 'they got what was coming to them', then that's fine, the rest of us with cool headers can continue to Thank God we haven't gotten what's coming to us and remind ourselves of that when we are tempted to see some horrible child-murderer tortured to death instead of humanely executed.
Though in the case of appellate courts the burden of proof is very much on the convicted to show their trial was improper in some way (refer again to the link, where evidence was proven to be withheld from the defense but a judge ruled that didn't justify a new trial; the burden of proof was clearly on the defense to show cause for a new trial, and when cause was shown it was deemed inadequate. ) Understand, I'm not saying we should let everyone go because we know some are innocent, or that knowing some are innocent is the only reason for decent treatment, just that knowing we will inevitably have a variable number of innocent convicts underscores the importance of treating them humanely (but not like they won a multi-year resort vacation. )
Prisoners should be treated humanely, but not in an enviable state either, all emphasis on 'enviable' since we don't obviously want people saying 'gee, I wish I was in prison, how can I get in?' Execution is not inhumane.
I strongly agree with your view of the penal system, but I don't believe our view is even remotely common. I only value punishment where it aids reform, but the very name of the "PENAL system" implies penalties have value in themselves. Further, because capital punishment is reserved for the most heinous crimes we often see it defended on the grounds that victims families deserve to know their Loved ones murderer is dead or something similar. I have reservations about how constructive feeding the desire for vengeance is, and that's the only peace I see death offering but permanent incarceration denying.
Well, our view is common amongst lawyers and politicians ironically, since it's tends to be the default view except when someone is rabble-rousing for the public. Considering it's managed to hold this view for a long time now, and we are probably less 'lynchee' than we used to be, I would say most people, though emotion driven on these things, tend to be reasonable when they've cooled off, and our system seems to force that.
I would add, that while vengeance is a flawed motive for punishment, the reverse is also true, public rage and outcry or bloodlust does not mean we should let people go or improve their conditions. If some want to feel that 'they got what was coming to them', then that's fine, the rest of us with cool headers can continue to Thank God we haven't gotten what's coming to us and remind ourselves of that when we are tempted to see some horrible child-murderer tortured to death instead of humanely executed.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
A level-of-comfort question regarding imprisonment of mixed innocent and guilty groups.
- 05/03/2010 02:39:53 AM
326 Views
as things stands, I don't think we'd ever reach a level where that'd be necessary oO
- 05/03/2010 03:24:07 AM
205 Views
100%
- 05/03/2010 03:47:31 AM
212 Views
Law of averages says there are certainly many innocent people in prison.
- 05/03/2010 04:09:41 AM
198 Views
Doesn't matter
- 05/03/2010 04:22:19 AM
187 Views
Clarification: X% of them definitely did not meet the standards of reasonable doubt.
- 05/03/2010 09:44:09 PM
171 Views
A relevant question; it seems to hinge on where one draws the line.
- 05/03/2010 04:19:34 AM
175 Views
I never really liked silly questions like this
- 05/03/2010 02:23:36 PM
205 Views
If there were 2,000,000 innocent and only 1 guilty, retrying everyone would not be practical.
- 05/03/2010 09:22:16 PM
177 Views
That's silly though
- 05/03/2010 09:39:53 PM
183 Views
Re: That's silly though
- 05/03/2010 11:11:50 PM
190 Views
Re: That's silly though
- 06/03/2010 12:11:06 AM
174 Views
what does the chance of reoffending have to do with guilt?
- 05/03/2010 10:02:21 PM
163 Views
Debt can be paid off, leaving the question of rehabilitation. *NM*
- 05/03/2010 10:32:38 PM
67 Views
I still don't see the realtionship to guilt
- 05/03/2010 10:59:28 PM
156 Views
Re: I still don't see the realtionship to guilt
- 05/03/2010 11:31:51 PM
170 Views
there is a reason they call it the justice system and not the rehabilation system
- 05/03/2010 11:33:55 PM
187 Views
It's called all kinds of things
- 06/03/2010 12:02:00 AM
185 Views
Re: It's called all kinds of things
- 06/03/2010 05:44:32 AM
175 Views
Well, we aren't going to agree at all (and I DID say it was opinion)
- 07/03/2010 09:00:37 AM
148 Views
