So in other words you were at wotmania far longer than I. I'm sorry you missed the CMB when it was still an awesome place. For all that CERTAIN PEOPLE think I get all my news from DailyKos (I think I've been there MAYBE a half dozen times in as many years) my main news outlet used to be the wotmania CMB, because I knew that ANY news story would show up there hours, sometimes days, before it appeared anywhere else, and the breadth, depth and civility of discussion would outstrip all or most other sources. I'm actually at something of a loss these days, because there are few other places I know to get timely news accounts that don't favor one perspective over others, when they don't just gloss over the issue in a blurb.
I have to say, I think you have a bit rose-coloured glasses here.

... okay, maybe I do agree with you after all, then.

Oh, I know; I attended my share, though back then I like to think I didn't participate in the shouting as often. Maybe I just had the good fortune to arrive after the worst had subsided, but while it did happen, MOST trolls USUALLY seemed to be dismissively ignored. The vitriol dripping insults were something you skimmed past on your way to worthwhile discussions, and the latter predominated even though the former made their inevitable appearance in threads on anything remotely controversial.
TX does at least have open primaries, but at the core I think people should be able to vote in all primaries for the same reason I'm offended by comments on "Real America. " If any party seeks to represent the nation, or claims to, then the whole nation should have a say in its leadership, and we'd probably have less extremist nominees were that the case. The spectacle that, IMHO, doomed McCain by forcing him to shed his moderate image to win a primary with the base then try to shed a RIGHT WING image to win the general election is one very familiar to Democrats. For decades national candidates couldn't get nominated without appeals to most far left elements of the base, which then came back to haunt them during the general campaign. Letting everyone vote in every primary would go along way toward ending the factionalism Washington rightly rejected as harmful to the nation.
I agree with this, but only as an inferior alternative for tackling the problem at the base and getting rid of the 100% FPTP system Congress now has - like Isaac suggests. Since that's likely never going to happen, the inferior alternative is probably best.
That carries its own set of difficulties, most notably divorcing representatives from any sub-national core constituency they REPRESENT. Pork is a very real abuse in need of reform, but a lot of very beneficial programs wouldn't exist without the votes of Congressmen who knew the vast majority of people who voted for them would benefit. I've heard it alleged, for example, the entire state of TX only has one natural lake; we have many artificial ones thinks to WPA hydroelectric programs supported by TX Congressman like Lyndon Johnson. Maybe LBJ is a good New Dealer soldier without that, but it certainly didn't hurt, and I can't help wondering how much of the New Deal would've become reality if individual Congressmen weren't offered individual programs they knew would help hundreds of thousands back home. Not to mention the time honored US principle of "writing your Congressman" goes out the window if he's not really YOUR Congressman.
I say all of that because the chief alternative to FPtP seems to be proportional representation, and while it has a lot of things going for it, it has some very real deficiencies that aren't present in our system. There are pros and cons to both the American and European models, and I can't say either is "better" but I do think both could benefit from borrowing from each other (instant runoffs would vastly and immediately improve our system, IMHO, allowing viable third parties without wasted votes. )
Healthcare needs to be split into separate bills, but tort reform needs to be included because that's how massive bills enact things that can't stand on their own merit?
Surely if we can justify tort reform as part of one massive healthcare bill, we can justify HEALTHCARES inclusion on the same basis. Personally, I'm a little sick of the political calculus in which BOTH sides are evaluating healthcare legislation solely in terms of how it will impact the midterms. LBJ took his lumps on Medicare and the Civil Rights Act despite having to run a re-election campaign along the way, because they were the right thing to do. But Obama is no LBJ or FDR, as becomes more apparent daily.

It's very odd with Obama. Like Isaac says, you have to wonder who's advising him - I don't even think his unfulfilled promises during the election campaign were insincere at the time he made them, yet you really can't say he looks like he's trying very hard to fulfill them.
Congress is less puzzling - there it's just a matter of perverse incentives that need to be dealt with one way or another if government in the US is to improve substantially (can you tell I'm an economist?

Obama was an unknown quantity and that was part of his appeal, but that means die hard liberals who voted for liberal rhetoric couldn't be certain they weren't getting a pragmatic moderate. What happened to Obama, IMHO, is that campaigning as an outside the Beltway politician didn't stop him being a politician. That said, I think Rahm and Axelrod are giving him horrible advice, because the best course for campaigning is seldom the best course for governing. The proof is in the pudding, but this increasingly tastes rather sour.
As to Congress, a lot of those incentives are there for reasons of accountability and representation. It's a national legislature composed of local representatives; the need for an elected official to represent the country is why we have a President, but the need for national interests not to trample local ones is why we have a Congress. With a few exceptions were wise and well educated men, and tampering with their handiwork is something I think should be carefully considered, deliberately evaluated and (usually) still not done.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 29/03/2010 at 02:52:08 PM
Palin reads Cheat Notes.
08/02/2010 12:43:02 AM
- 1424 Views
Is it really worse than reading answers on a teleprompter? sorry, I see no big deal here. *NM*
08/02/2010 01:02:49 AM
- 252 Views
yes yes it is. a teleprompter is subtle
08/02/2010 01:22:17 AM
- 593 Views
a teleprompter is not subtle
08/02/2010 02:25:46 PM
- 522 Views
staring openly and blatantly at your hand is? *NM*
08/02/2010 03:09:25 PM
- 322 Views
I think if anyone else had done the dame thing we wouldn't even had heard about
08/02/2010 06:13:44 PM
- 523 Views
Yes for what the notes were
08/02/2010 12:44:35 PM
- 557 Views
he is calling her content free while attacking her in such a content free manner?
08/02/2010 02:50:04 PM
- 551 Views
It's good the media still hounds her. I don't want her to be a candidate. *NM*
08/02/2010 01:20:21 AM
- 282 Views
This only obscures the rational reasons for duly decrying her political popularity. Moooooooo. *NM*
08/02/2010 03:19:45 AM
- 326 Views
I disagree, I think it underscores it.
08/02/2010 03:39:57 AM
- 524 Views
Or they might believe that a far left liberal
08/02/2010 04:16:51 AM
- 542 Views
Calling someone who needs a cheat sheet for their talking points stupid isn't an ad hominem, IMHO.
08/02/2010 12:13:36 PM
- 537 Views
soory but your wrong, again
08/02/2010 02:23:31 PM
- 496 Views
You shouldn't need reminders of your major themes after two years pushing them.
08/02/2010 02:55:22 PM
- 528 Views
I used to work in a call center and had a note to remind me to talk slower
08/02/2010 05:54:25 PM
- 652 Views
I don't hate her, and I think most liberals love her.
09/02/2010 10:45:25 AM
- 649 Views
way to play the pregant daughter card
09/02/2010 03:06:37 PM
- 557 Views
*shrugs* If you're going to suggest sex ed is harmful, unnecessary and promotes promiscuity...
10/02/2010 08:34:16 AM
- 623 Views
so if you don't support the liberal agenda your family is fair game for attack? nice to you admit it
10/02/2010 06:26:30 PM
- 556 Views
Um, no, if you're going to demand everyone follow your advice it better not be disastrous for you.
11/02/2010 05:29:01 AM
- 542 Views
Do you have anb example of when she demanded everyone follow her advice?
11/02/2010 05:33:17 AM
- 592 Views
Honestly, her sex ed position seems so muddled to me it's hard to say
11/02/2010 06:50:39 AM
- 745 Views
That's a bit silly
08/02/2010 08:40:25 PM
- 690 Views
I'm perfectly happy to discuss her positions; I just think Huckabee does a better job of it.
09/02/2010 10:26:54 AM
- 709 Views
Well, let's discuss some of these points
09/02/2010 07:13:33 PM
- 715 Views
Re: Well, let's discuss some of these points
10/02/2010 09:15:04 AM
- 747 Views
Re: Well, let's discuss some of these points
10/02/2010 06:49:51 PM
- 814 Views
Ironically, Palin seems to agree this is different than using a teleprompter for a speech.
11/02/2010 09:05:19 AM
- 709 Views
Again, two seperate things
11/02/2010 09:51:15 PM
- 525 Views
Agreed, but Palin and other Republicans, not I, drew the comparison.
15/02/2010 01:02:25 PM
- 673 Views
Just to get the obligatory Feinstein comment out of the way...
15/02/2010 11:43:42 PM
- 735 Views
Hadn't heard, actually.
19/02/2010 06:58:50 AM
- 650 Views
Re: Hadn't heard, actually.
19/02/2010 08:32:11 AM
- 648 Views
Ah.
23/02/2010 09:55:45 PM
- 725 Views
Re: Ah.
24/02/2010 01:32:34 AM
- 672 Views
Yeah, I think we've reached an understanding if not agreement.
01/03/2010 03:51:49 AM
- 666 Views
Re: Yeah, I think we've reached an understanding if not agreement.
01/03/2010 11:46:24 PM
- 881 Views
Re: Yeah, I think we've reached an understanding if not agreement.
05/03/2010 12:11:48 AM
- 754 Views
Random Title
05/03/2010 02:49:59 AM
- 683 Views
Re: Random Title
15/03/2010 05:37:22 AM
- 599 Views
Re: Random Title
15/03/2010 09:17:53 PM
- 913 Views
Oh dear, who ever let you two get into a subthread together?
15/03/2010 10:31:24 PM
- 744 Views

Ben was asleep at the switch, clearly.
29/03/2010 02:48:46 PM
- 681 Views

I disagree. For all we know she has a learning disability. "Disability" does not equal "stupid".
09/02/2010 03:23:24 PM
- 610 Views
A possibility I hadn't considered, true, and sorry if I gave offense.
10/02/2010 08:25:52 AM
- 736 Views
oh yes, and the right never uses ad hominem
08/02/2010 03:56:42 PM
- 491 Views
I do see as the primary focus like I see from the left these days *NM*
08/02/2010 06:15:22 PM
- 337 Views
could you rephrase? you seem to be missing a noun or something in there. *NM*
08/02/2010 07:57:19 PM
- 283 Views
misisng a couple actually
08/02/2010 08:04:35 PM
- 520 Views
Touch typing is easier, at least to learn, if you don't try to read it at the same time, FYI.
10/02/2010 09:24:33 AM
- 575 Views

Really how many times can you rememeber a Bush press sec openly ridicule people in a press confrence
10/02/2010 06:28:57 PM
- 465 Views
Good point; all they used to do was have the VP say opponents helped terrorists.
11/02/2010 05:33:08 AM
- 516 Views
one is about actions ands the other is about personal attacks
05/03/2010 02:19:38 PM
- 480 Views
True, one is about what Palin DID and the other is just characterizing opposition as treason.
15/03/2010 04:39:45 AM
- 497 Views
This is petty and also rather ignorant
08/02/2010 03:59:40 AM
- 688 Views
so you're saying you're as dumb as sarah palin?
08/02/2010 10:55:00 AM
- 502 Views

In other news liberals can't get over someone being popular they don't agree with
08/02/2010 04:12:19 AM
- 664 Views
It's completely unprofessional
08/02/2010 08:27:47 AM
- 521 Views
yeah, she should have had them inscribed into her nail polish instead...
08/02/2010 10:55:43 AM
- 496 Views
why?
08/02/2010 02:29:44 PM
- 544 Views
You know that's a good question
08/02/2010 05:19:10 PM
- 507 Views
maybe you are just projecting
08/02/2010 06:15:57 PM
- 511 Views
well what is the association we have with notes on hands?
08/02/2010 07:58:41 PM
- 536 Views
or people on the far left are being grossly disingenuous
08/02/2010 08:18:06 PM
- 650 Views
dude, only posted it because it was funny
08/02/2010 08:43:55 PM
- 506 Views
so you like to point at people and laugh and can't understand why others would object
08/02/2010 11:24:37 PM
- 590 Views
Who cares? She's hot. *NM*
08/02/2010 03:06:58 PM
- 247 Views
Much ado about nothing. She was just making sure she didn't forget anything.
09/02/2010 02:00:56 AM
- 487 Views
I don't like the woman at all, but this is just silly. Who cares? *NM*
11/02/2010 10:11:17 PM
- 248 Views