Active Users:499 Time:02/05/2025 08:47:23 PM
Mass Effect 1 vs 2: RPG-shooter vs Shooter-rpg (This is for you, Cymbaline!) (No spoilers) lord-of-shadow Send a noteboard - 02/02/2010 11:28:24 PM
So there is no question about it: ME2 is less of an RPG, and more or an fps, than ME1 ever was. The overwhelming response to the gameplay changes seem to be positive, but I know a couple people who view it as a downgrade. Cymbaline, if my memory serves, doesn't even plan on playing the second one because of the increased emphasis on the FPS side.

I've been thinking about it a bit over the last few days. I myself find the combat in 2 much more satisfying, but I do see how an RPG purist like Cymbaline might find it to be a downgrade. With a couple minutes of brainstorming, here's a list of reasons why someone would like the RPG genre. Not all RPGs have all of these qualities, of course:

1. They are historically more focused on narrative.

2. They tend to have more fully realized worlds (hand in hand with the narrative)

3. There is a clear character progression, generally represented by numbers, unlocked skills, etc. The end result is that an end-game character is far more powerful than a beginning one.

4. This character progression features meaningful choices; which stats to upgrade, which skills to unlock, etc.

5. An RPG fight is not usually action-oriented; you don't win because of your reflexes, you win because of well-thought out tactical choices.

6. If you're stumped in a battle, it's generally possible to place time and effort into sidequests or some form of grinding to improve your character's stats and defeat the battle even without the best skills.

7. The underlying game system - all the numbers, stats, their interactions, etc. - tend to be more transparent, and thus more accessible to the player.

8. The underlying game system is complex, and offers a number of ways for it to be taken advantage of, if the player is willing to put effort into it.

I'm sure I could come up with more, but this'll do. Out of this list, Mass Effect 2 preserved or improved most of those qualities, and the ones that I derive the most enjoyment from: character progression, narrative focus, detailed world, ability to sidequest to improve your character(s). 7 is arguable; the underlying game system is less accessible than in 1, but still there.

8, too, I'm not sure about. It seems less complex than it's predecessor at first, but I fairly quickly realized that that wasn't the case. They got rid of all the equipment and inventory wrangling, but it did not sacrifice the ability to make strategic choices or customize in the process. They seemingly reduced the number of available skills, but you unlock quite a few as the game progresses. And they INCREASED the differences between the classes, some of which play very tactically (infiltrator, etc.).



The only places it really "fails", or deviates from a strength of the RPG genre, is that the battles are fast-paced, and they can be decided by physical skill rather than pure decision-making. But this is deceptive; even though it is more of a shooter now, it is still not a shooter. The battles are fairly slow-paced compared to any shooter I've played this side of America's Army, and I don't think the pacing is any different from the first game.


Ultimately, I think that you or anyone else who is upset about the perceived move away from RPG towards shooter should give it a shot first, Cymbaline. And every time that you hear about a change that makes it seem like less of an RPG, also remember that the other RPG aspects are, for the most part, even better than the previous game.



Oh yeah, if you read my other post you know that I talked to the producer for a little while. One of the questions I asked him was if he had an answer for some of my friends who were leery of the game because of the shift towards shooter. He advised me that "they" (and I was thinking of you, Cymbaline) should avoid the run-and-gun classes, like the soldier, and try the others, like the infiltrator, biotic, etc. They tend to be less action and less FPS, and play more similarly to a traditional RPG. Straight from the horses' mouth, so take it with a grain of salt, but hey.
This message last edited by lord-of-shadow on 02/02/2010 at 11:33:00 PM
Reply to message
Why not? Let's have a Mass Effect thread. - 02/02/2010 05:02:32 PM 3742 Views
Character discussion: Mordin Solus - 02/02/2010 06:28:41 PM 1972 Views
I loved this character - 02/02/2010 06:42:23 PM 1531 Views
I think everyone probably loved / will love Mordin. - 02/02/2010 07:49:32 PM 1383 Views
Mordin Solus is great - 02/02/2010 08:21:26 PM 1404 Views
Actually, that's what happened to me too. - 02/02/2010 08:33:22 PM 1488 Views
That may be it - 02/02/2010 08:35:34 PM 1453 Views
The other thing I wondered - 02/02/2010 08:42:37 PM 1354 Views
I think your friend may be correct. - 02/02/2010 08:41:41 PM 1377 Views
I am the very model of a Scientist Salarian. - 03/02/2010 11:15:05 PM 1565 Views
Oh that was wonderful. - 03/02/2010 11:29:39 PM 1283 Views
I'll be back - 02/02/2010 08:07:28 PM 1387 Views
No problem. - 02/02/2010 08:18:48 PM 1320 Views
The Illusive man - 02/02/2010 08:34:09 PM 1595 Views
I didn't even realize that's who he was. - 02/02/2010 08:44:07 PM 1519 Views
"I'm having trouble hearing you. I'm getting a lot of bullshit on this line." *NM* - 02/02/2010 09:34:53 PM 742 Views
And other famous voices too... - 13/02/2010 02:41:38 PM 1446 Views
Re: And other famous voices too... - 18/02/2010 06:24:43 AM 1501 Views
Who is sharing your bed? - 02/02/2010 09:42:09 PM 1526 Views
I wish i had realized Tali was an option - 02/02/2010 11:26:15 PM 1437 Views
The story of Matt-Shep and his many women. - 03/02/2010 04:44:57 AM 1476 Views
Re: The story of Matt-Shep and his many women. - 03/02/2010 05:40:12 PM 1328 Views
Tali for my male Shepherd - 04/02/2010 03:52:03 PM 1408 Views
Does she take the helmet off? *NM* - 04/02/2010 07:57:18 PM 760 Views
Answer: - 04/02/2010 08:26:38 PM 1338 Views
Re: Answer: - 04/02/2010 10:43:09 PM 1346 Views
Re: Answer: - 05/02/2010 12:48:04 AM 1355 Views
I went simple - Miranda. - 07/02/2010 06:32:25 AM 1323 Views
Which reminds me that I always wondered... - 07/02/2010 11:54:14 AM 1437 Views
You probably wouldn't be able to woo anyone by being a total dick. *NM* - 07/02/2010 03:32:41 PM 744 Views
Morinth might be into that - 15/02/2010 06:41:12 AM 1477 Views
Mine backfired - 13/02/2010 02:43:29 PM 1377 Views
I was lucky enough to meet the game's producer... (No spoilers) - 02/02/2010 10:58:59 PM 1560 Views
No spoilers here either, as per my rules. Regarding the ammo: - 03/02/2010 04:51:54 AM 1377 Views
On limited resources... - 03/02/2010 04:33:10 PM 1391 Views
I think it adds depth to the combat, reduces "pew-pew" spam. - 03/02/2010 04:43:04 PM 1451 Views
I just want to be part of this....that said, Best Buy is no longer selling ME:1 - 02/02/2010 11:16:51 PM 1531 Views
Could well be. - 03/02/2010 04:52:49 AM 1298 Views
Re: Could well be. - 03/02/2010 05:56:52 AM 1310 Views
Yeah. Blech. - 03/02/2010 06:04:35 AM 1429 Views
Yeah, the only decent deals I've found there - 03/02/2010 07:59:23 AM 1364 Views
I don't know why.... - 03/02/2010 08:14:50 AM 1347 Views
Glad the PC version was $50, at the risk of sounding like a snob. - 03/02/2010 04:01:52 PM 1307 Views
Mass Effect 1 vs 2: RPG-shooter vs Shooter-rpg (This is for you, Cymbaline!) (No spoilers) - 02/02/2010 11:28:24 PM 1497 Views
I agree with you, and am enjoying the Vanguard so far. - 03/02/2010 02:33:06 AM 1346 Views
My thoughts, crippled by not having played the game - 03/02/2010 04:52:26 AM 1585 Views
From someone with the same dislike of FPS's - Spoiler Free - 16/02/2010 10:44:42 PM 1369 Views
A few thoughts on this. - 03/02/2010 05:27:36 AM 1535 Views
The "Holy crap that was awesome" moments. SPOILERS - 03/02/2010 11:27:55 PM 1465 Views
Re: The "Holy crap that was awesome" moments. SPOILERS - 04/02/2010 04:11:23 AM 1298 Views
Re: The "Holy crap that was awesome" moments. SPOILERS - 04/02/2010 04:59:54 AM 1352 Views
Re: The "Holy crap that was awesome" moments. SPOILERS - 04/02/2010 06:16:29 AM 1453 Views
Well. . .somewhat, I guess. - 04/02/2010 06:43:02 AM 1466 Views
Re: Well. . .somewhat, I guess. - 04/02/2010 03:32:26 PM 1402 Views
You know what? I'll actually buy that. I appreciate the explanation. - 04/02/2010 06:30:37 PM 1232 Views
A couple of more things...... - 16/02/2010 12:41:19 AM 1484 Views
Some good thoughts. - 16/02/2010 01:50:07 AM 1420 Views
Re: Some good thoughts. - 16/02/2010 06:54:59 PM 1301 Views
Re: Well. . .somewhat, I guess. - 04/02/2010 10:42:11 PM 1400 Views
Mine - 13/02/2010 02:46:41 PM 1344 Views
Yuss! - 22/02/2010 08:08:41 PM 1366 Views
Game was too easy, primary plotline too short - 04/02/2010 09:03:52 PM 1403 Views
Nice. I'm playing through on Insanity now, and I think it's a good challenge. - 05/02/2010 02:17:02 AM 1312 Views
Whats your character build? - 05/02/2010 02:45:31 PM 1565 Views
You put a lot of thought into that. - 05/02/2010 03:58:16 PM 1506 Views
Re: You put a lot of thought into that. - 05/02/2010 04:00:26 PM 1466 Views
The game was too easy - 13/02/2010 02:48:10 PM 1286 Views
A moment that made me laugh pretty hard. - 05/02/2010 01:06:47 AM 1436 Views
LOL yeah *NM* - 22/02/2010 08:11:30 PM 745 Views
Ok, so male or female Shepherd? - 05/02/2010 01:50:23 AM 1337 Views
Hm. This brings up a thought. - 05/02/2010 01:52:37 AM 1279 Views
Not Moridin or Grunt - 05/02/2010 02:08:49 AM 1328 Views
Dam, I really wanted to bed Mordin (Only one "i" there) *NM* - 05/02/2010 02:46:19 AM 712 Views
Male for my first playthrough, female for my second. - 05/02/2010 02:28:24 AM 1444 Views
Agreed, on some of those counts. - 05/02/2010 07:28:00 AM 1297 Views
Re: Agreed, on some of those counts. - 05/02/2010 07:43:20 AM 1425 Views
Yeah - 13/02/2010 02:51:44 PM 1422 Views
Male so far. I plan on playing the female Shepard next playthrough. *NM* - 05/02/2010 03:25:00 AM 807 Views
I think I'll do fem on my third playthrough. - 05/02/2010 03:33:56 AM 1339 Views
Your Teams, and Your Deaths. - 07/02/2010 06:30:25 AM 1246 Views
Re: Your Teams, and Your Deaths. - 07/02/2010 09:07:17 AM 1443 Views
Hm, that's interesting. - 07/02/2010 03:31:52 PM 1345 Views
Do you know... - 07/02/2010 03:46:59 PM 1247 Views
Re: Do you know... - 07/02/2010 04:31:29 PM 1356 Views
Awesome. Thanks! *NM* - 07/02/2010 04:40:59 PM 777 Views
Yeah, that's what I did. - 07/02/2010 06:37:50 PM 1206 Views
Re: Yeah, that's what I did. - 08/02/2010 03:44:52 PM 1214 Views
Hmmm... - 09/02/2010 03:48:48 PM 1284 Views
Strange. - 09/02/2010 04:19:04 PM 1350 Views
me too - 13/02/2010 03:01:05 PM 1331 Views
Did you do Legion's loyalty mission? - 15/02/2010 05:52:36 AM 1427 Views
I did, for what it's worth. - 15/02/2010 07:26:38 AM 1363 Views
Gah. Then I wonder if loyalty of the rest of the crew has something to do with it. - 15/02/2010 04:20:13 PM 1323 Views
That could definitely be the case. - 15/02/2010 04:30:06 PM 1301 Views
Maybe Joker flew slowly. - 09/02/2010 04:22:38 PM 1343 Views
Re: Your Teams, and Your Deaths. - 07/02/2010 03:42:05 PM 1320 Views
Yea, I had one hull upgrade left before going in - 07/02/2010 03:49:57 PM 1194 Views
Re: Your Teams, and Your Deaths. - 13/02/2010 02:55:48 PM 1359 Views
My first time through and all squad members survived. - 16/02/2010 03:09:46 AM 1393 Views
Re: Your Teams, and Your Deaths. - 19/02/2010 10:16:28 PM 1303 Views
I didn't see that one coming - 22/02/2010 08:16:33 PM 1370 Views
Re: I didn't see that one coming - 23/02/2010 03:29:57 AM 1348 Views
Re: I didn't see that one coming - 24/02/2010 10:23:03 AM 1308 Views
I have come across a big problem. - 07/02/2010 06:53:36 PM 1365 Views
Re: I have come across a big problem. - 08/02/2010 03:41:16 PM 1295 Views
Adept seems rather fun... - 08/02/2010 03:49:23 PM 1244 Views
Want FREE Mass Effect 2 DLC? ME 2! (har, har) Bioware bonus goodies detailed inside. - 09/02/2010 07:03:23 PM 1505 Views
Now if only the DLC armors didn't have helmets. - 09/02/2010 07:26:47 PM 1270 Views
I did that for about half the game - 09/02/2010 07:48:14 PM 1297 Views
At first I was wearing the visor - 09/02/2010 11:32:28 PM 1383 Views
Of course, the Shotgun is released AFTER I beat my Vanguard *sigh* - 09/02/2010 11:31:13 PM 1342 Views
It's nice, but you don't miss much if you already had the Claymore shotty w/ an ammo upgrade. *NM* - 10/02/2010 05:16:00 AM 722 Views
I couldn't stand the Claymore - 10/02/2010 05:20:42 AM 1334 Views
Anyone find anything interesting about Zaeed Massani? - 11/02/2010 09:08:16 PM 1374 Views
I enjoy Zaeed. - 11/02/2010 09:22:39 PM 1328 Views
Yeah, I've listened to him alot but it's the same stuff every time. - 12/02/2010 03:14:11 PM 1279 Views
Never put him on my team once. And in the same vein - Jack. - 12/02/2010 01:34:33 AM 1442 Views
Who, what, where? *NM* - 22/02/2010 08:18:31 PM 683 Views
If you bought a new copy of the game, it came with a code for the "Cerberus Network" - 22/02/2010 08:22:18 PM 1281 Views
Oh, I did - 22/02/2010 08:30:21 PM 1262 Views
Is there a way to install the game on the Xbox, so you don't have to switch discs? - 12/02/2010 01:39:07 AM 1311 Views
Good ones have two discs, of course. DVDs can only hold so much. *NM* - 12/02/2010 02:46:39 AM 682 Views
This is the first I've ever seen. *NM* - 12/02/2010 02:51:34 AM 716 Views
I've never understood why people are unhappy with the multiple discs. - 12/02/2010 04:18:42 AM 1312 Views
There are a few others. - 12/02/2010 06:52:01 AM 1242 Views
Since nobody has really answered you....YES - 16/02/2010 10:08:40 PM 1328 Views
Shadow answered him. *NM* - 16/02/2010 10:52:17 PM 709 Views
So far, so great! - 12/02/2010 08:35:00 AM 1290 Views
Re: So far, so great! - 12/02/2010 02:31:43 PM 1387 Views
Re: So far, so great! - 16/02/2010 10:17:12 PM 1345 Views
I love the detail put into this game. - 12/02/2010 02:58:35 PM 1266 Views
Female Turians.... - 12/02/2010 09:05:39 PM 1255 Views
Nope. Don't exist in-game. - 14/02/2010 01:47:23 AM 1213 Views
I believe a krogan female is shown once. - 14/02/2010 02:03:27 AM 1302 Views
No I don't think that's right. - 14/02/2010 08:54:32 AM 1227 Views
Two things make me feel that the ambassador is female. - 14/02/2010 02:50:18 PM 1297 Views
So I just revisited Tuchanka... - 14/02/2010 05:21:39 PM 1407 Views
Asari - 15/02/2010 06:51:10 AM 1354 Views
Not really. - 15/02/2010 10:41:54 PM 1287 Views
I think you're taking him too literally. - 16/02/2010 01:06:11 AM 1290 Views
Yeah, probably was. - 16/02/2010 03:26:46 AM 1372 Views
Yeah, that's what I meant - 16/02/2010 10:51:01 PM 1313 Views
Dammit! I lost Miranda! - 14/02/2010 08:24:55 PM 1310 Views
The final verdict - 22/02/2010 08:06:12 PM 1312 Views
Re: The final verdict - 22/02/2010 09:01:53 PM 1315 Views
Explanation for death - 23/02/2010 02:00:16 AM 1332 Views
Can't be it, then - 23/02/2010 08:02:11 AM 1441 Views
He got taken by the bugs during the biotic bubble sequence? - 23/02/2010 03:25:36 AM 1297 Views
Re: He got taken by the bugs during the biotic bubble sequence? - 23/02/2010 08:03:46 AM 1350 Views
By the way, my game was surprisingly buggy - 23/02/2010 08:49:28 AM 1435 Views
Huh, I never got that. I only got one kind of bug. - 23/02/2010 04:06:17 PM 1238 Views
Re: Huh, I never got that. I only got one kind of bug. - 23/02/2010 04:29:46 PM 1228 Views
I had no bugs of any sort. *NM* - 23/02/2010 05:15:32 PM 734 Views
A complaint about the Morality system. (Or, how Mass Effect semi-killed roleplaying). - 27/02/2010 06:40:35 AM 1413 Views
Re: A complaint about the Morality system. (Or, how Mass Effect semi-killed roleplaying). - 27/02/2010 12:28:29 PM 1240 Views
Re: A complaint about the Morality system. (Or, how Mass Effect semi-killed roleplaying). - 27/02/2010 04:57:43 PM 1298 Views
Re: A complaint about the Morality system. (Or, how Mass Effect semi-killed roleplaying). - 28/02/2010 12:34:31 AM 1352 Views
I suppose. - 28/02/2010 03:29:23 AM 1331 Views
A vital part of role-playing is forcing the player to deal with the consequences of their actions - 27/02/2010 11:53:56 PM 1584 Views
Admittedly, my post was somewhat stream-of-consciousness. - 28/02/2010 03:28:02 AM 1281 Views
That's more understandable. - 28/02/2010 05:58:59 AM 1299 Views
Yeah, the tradeoff already works just fine. - 28/02/2010 06:05:44 AM 1299 Views
ok that's weird - 10/03/2010 06:52:39 PM 1316 Views

Reply to Message