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My thoughts, crippled by not having played the game Cymbaline Send a noteboard - 03/02/2010 04:52:26 AM
Right you are about not playing the game, though there are two facets to it. The first, like you remember, is the perceived shift away from being an RPG. It's hard, or at the very least a subject you could argue on, to define what constitutes an "RPG" in the video game-related sense. As for things that typically go hand in hand with the genre, I'd say I more or less agree with your list. To address what I think you missed:

Equipment - One I don't believe you mentioned, and one that I've heard has been heavily revamped (read: almost entirely eliminated) in such a fashion that I suspect I'd call it the opposite of an improvement

Exploration - For me, this is a big one. One of the things I loved about the first game was wandering around the space station, talking to all these crazy people from other races and planets, and generally feeling like I was living in another world that was full of people. The Mako sections go under this heading, and definitely could have used improvement, but I'd have opted for improvement, not elimination. I've heard there are some side quests you can run, but that the whole "huge open area and lots of side quests that can be going on at the same time" aspect of the game has been scaled back significantly, if not eliminated outright.

To reiterate what I've heard other people say, it's like they heard all of the complaints against the game - crappy inventory management and equipment choices, boring Mako segments - and rather than improve them, they just eliminated them. Those were things that I actually really like about the RPG genre (equipment and exploration), and to see them axed like that does not make me enthusiastic.

Ultimately, I think that you or anyone else who is upset about the perceived move away from RPG towards shooter should give it a shot first, Cymbaline.


If a friend brings it over (which won't happen, since I'm the only person I know in real life that's even vaguely interested in the franchise), I'm willing to give it a play. I'm not going to spend $60 on it, though (particularly after having been burned by Uncharted 2, which I think will share a key fault with ME2).

Oh yeah, if you read my other post you know that I talked to the producer for a little while. One of the questions I asked him was if he had an answer for some of my friends who were leery of the game because of the shift towards shooter. He advised me that "they" (and I was thinking of you, Cymbaline) should avoid the run-and-gun classes, like the soldier, and try the others, like the infiltrator, biotic, etc. They tend to be less action and less FPS, and play more similarly to a traditional RPG. Straight from the horses' mouth, so take it with a grain of salt, but hey.


This is actually my other problem with the game - the shift toward being an FPS. I know that that genre moves units like nobody's business, and hey, they're in the business of making a dollar, but there is no better way to turn me off of a title than to throw FPS action into the mix.

I hate FPSes. I loathe them. The long story, should anyone care, is that I played them - primarily Quake, Quake 2 (by far the leader), Quake 3, and Counterstrike - almost nonstop for two years, and then fairly frequently for another two. I have burned myself out on the genre completely. When I was little, the only bread my mom would make sandwiches out of was wheat bread. To this day, I can't get a piece of wheat bread past my throat. Same thing. I'm not saying that FPS games suck (though I do think the FPS genre is one of the most stale, overdone, lowest-common-denominator, and innovation-free segments of the video game world, but that's another story), but what I am saying is that I do not like it, and I will not like it even if it's good, and even if it's great. It's still an FPS. Some people don't listen to rap, some people don't eat Mexican, some people don't watch TV; I don't play FPSes. They are like digging a ditch or watching grass grow or getting punched in the back repeatedly - they are the very opposite of fun.

Which brings me back to the producer's comment: I suffered through the combat in the first - suffered, as I absolutely hated it - so that I could level up, get new equipment, explore, do side quests, and see the story through. When I hear that the second game has ratcheted up the elements I hate to the point that they're now dominant and eliminated a significant portion of what I endured that shit for, I'm not interested in playing anymore. Maybe the story is more taut and even more well-executed. Maybe the character advancement is intact and refined. It doesn't matter, because the FPS still overrides everything. Even if the biotic plays more like an RPG, it's still an FPS. I do not buy that it's that different. You still hide behind crates, you still try to put enemies in the center of your crosshairs, you still shoot people. I played a biotic in the first game (if my memory serves), and I did not enjoy combat in the least. From everything I have read, Mass Effect moved from 1/3 FPS & 2/3 RPG to 1/3 RPG and 2/3 FPS. That is the difference between playing and not playing for me.
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Why not? Let's have a Mass Effect thread. - 02/02/2010 05:02:32 PM 4030 Views
Character discussion: Mordin Solus - 02/02/2010 06:28:41 PM 2224 Views
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I think your friend may be correct. - 02/02/2010 08:41:41 PM 1649 Views
I am the very model of a Scientist Salarian. - 03/02/2010 11:15:05 PM 1829 Views
Oh that was wonderful. - 03/02/2010 11:29:39 PM 1538 Views
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No problem. - 02/02/2010 08:18:48 PM 1595 Views
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I didn't even realize that's who he was. - 02/02/2010 08:44:07 PM 1775 Views
"I'm having trouble hearing you. I'm getting a lot of bullshit on this line." *NM* - 02/02/2010 09:34:53 PM 845 Views
And other famous voices too... - 13/02/2010 02:41:38 PM 1699 Views
Re: And other famous voices too... - 18/02/2010 06:24:43 AM 1757 Views
Who is sharing your bed? - 02/02/2010 09:42:09 PM 1787 Views
I wish i had realized Tali was an option - 02/02/2010 11:26:15 PM 1698 Views
The story of Matt-Shep and his many women. - 03/02/2010 04:44:57 AM 1730 Views
Re: The story of Matt-Shep and his many women. - 03/02/2010 05:40:12 PM 1589 Views
Tali for my male Shepherd - 04/02/2010 03:52:03 PM 1666 Views
Does she take the helmet off? *NM* - 04/02/2010 07:57:18 PM 869 Views
Answer: - 04/02/2010 08:26:38 PM 1602 Views
Re: Answer: - 04/02/2010 10:43:09 PM 1598 Views
Re: Answer: - 05/02/2010 12:48:04 AM 1606 Views
I went simple - Miranda. - 07/02/2010 06:32:25 AM 1583 Views
Which reminds me that I always wondered... - 07/02/2010 11:54:14 AM 1690 Views
You probably wouldn't be able to woo anyone by being a total dick. *NM* - 07/02/2010 03:32:41 PM 846 Views
Morinth might be into that - 15/02/2010 06:41:12 AM 1731 Views
Mine backfired - 13/02/2010 02:43:29 PM 1626 Views
I was lucky enough to meet the game's producer... (No spoilers) - 02/02/2010 10:58:59 PM 1820 Views
No spoilers here either, as per my rules. Regarding the ammo: - 03/02/2010 04:51:54 AM 1629 Views
On limited resources... - 03/02/2010 04:33:10 PM 1660 Views
I think it adds depth to the combat, reduces "pew-pew" spam. - 03/02/2010 04:43:04 PM 1719 Views
I just want to be part of this....that said, Best Buy is no longer selling ME:1 - 02/02/2010 11:16:51 PM 1780 Views
Could well be. - 03/02/2010 04:52:49 AM 1558 Views
Re: Could well be. - 03/02/2010 05:56:52 AM 1583 Views
Yeah. Blech. - 03/02/2010 06:04:35 AM 1688 Views
Yeah, the only decent deals I've found there - 03/02/2010 07:59:23 AM 1620 Views
I don't know why.... - 03/02/2010 08:14:50 AM 1610 Views
Glad the PC version was $50, at the risk of sounding like a snob. - 03/02/2010 04:01:52 PM 1558 Views
Mass Effect 1 vs 2: RPG-shooter vs Shooter-rpg (This is for you, Cymbaline!) (No spoilers) - 02/02/2010 11:28:24 PM 1757 Views
I agree with you, and am enjoying the Vanguard so far. - 03/02/2010 02:33:06 AM 1601 Views
My thoughts, crippled by not having played the game - 03/02/2010 04:52:26 AM 1849 Views
From someone with the same dislike of FPS's - Spoiler Free - 16/02/2010 10:44:42 PM 1616 Views
A few thoughts on this. - 03/02/2010 05:27:36 AM 1790 Views
The "Holy crap that was awesome" moments. SPOILERS - 03/02/2010 11:27:55 PM 1725 Views
Re: The "Holy crap that was awesome" moments. SPOILERS - 04/02/2010 04:11:23 AM 1552 Views
Re: The "Holy crap that was awesome" moments. SPOILERS - 04/02/2010 04:59:54 AM 1628 Views
Re: The "Holy crap that was awesome" moments. SPOILERS - 04/02/2010 06:16:29 AM 1731 Views
Well. . .somewhat, I guess. - 04/02/2010 06:43:02 AM 1753 Views
Re: Well. . .somewhat, I guess. - 04/02/2010 03:32:26 PM 1676 Views
You know what? I'll actually buy that. I appreciate the explanation. - 04/02/2010 06:30:37 PM 1490 Views
A couple of more things...... - 16/02/2010 12:41:19 AM 1747 Views
Some good thoughts. - 16/02/2010 01:50:07 AM 1684 Views
Re: Some good thoughts. - 16/02/2010 06:54:59 PM 1564 Views
Re: Well. . .somewhat, I guess. - 04/02/2010 10:42:11 PM 1660 Views
Mine - 13/02/2010 02:46:41 PM 1606 Views
Yuss! - 22/02/2010 08:08:41 PM 1621 Views
Game was too easy, primary plotline too short - 04/02/2010 09:03:52 PM 1655 Views
Nice. I'm playing through on Insanity now, and I think it's a good challenge. - 05/02/2010 02:17:02 AM 1574 Views
Whats your character build? - 05/02/2010 02:45:31 PM 1821 Views
You put a lot of thought into that. - 05/02/2010 03:58:16 PM 1766 Views
Re: You put a lot of thought into that. - 05/02/2010 04:00:26 PM 1721 Views
The game was too easy - 13/02/2010 02:48:10 PM 1556 Views
A moment that made me laugh pretty hard. - 05/02/2010 01:06:47 AM 1696 Views
LOL yeah *NM* - 22/02/2010 08:11:30 PM 845 Views
Ok, so male or female Shepherd? - 05/02/2010 01:50:23 AM 1603 Views
Hm. This brings up a thought. - 05/02/2010 01:52:37 AM 1540 Views
Not Moridin or Grunt - 05/02/2010 02:08:49 AM 1603 Views
Dam, I really wanted to bed Mordin (Only one "i" there) *NM* - 05/02/2010 02:46:19 AM 812 Views
Male for my first playthrough, female for my second. - 05/02/2010 02:28:24 AM 1712 Views
Agreed, on some of those counts. - 05/02/2010 07:28:00 AM 1561 Views
Re: Agreed, on some of those counts. - 05/02/2010 07:43:20 AM 1702 Views
Yeah - 13/02/2010 02:51:44 PM 1683 Views
Male so far. I plan on playing the female Shepard next playthrough. *NM* - 05/02/2010 03:25:00 AM 917 Views
I think I'll do fem on my third playthrough. - 05/02/2010 03:33:56 AM 1583 Views
Your Teams, and Your Deaths. - 07/02/2010 06:30:25 AM 1501 Views
Re: Your Teams, and Your Deaths. - 07/02/2010 09:07:17 AM 1704 Views
Hm, that's interesting. - 07/02/2010 03:31:52 PM 1600 Views
Do you know... - 07/02/2010 03:46:59 PM 1529 Views
Re: Do you know... - 07/02/2010 04:31:29 PM 1630 Views
Awesome. Thanks! *NM* - 07/02/2010 04:40:59 PM 877 Views
Yeah, that's what I did. - 07/02/2010 06:37:50 PM 1467 Views
Re: Yeah, that's what I did. - 08/02/2010 03:44:52 PM 1462 Views
Hmmm... - 09/02/2010 03:48:48 PM 1533 Views
Strange. - 09/02/2010 04:19:04 PM 1627 Views
me too - 13/02/2010 03:01:05 PM 1599 Views
Did you do Legion's loyalty mission? - 15/02/2010 05:52:36 AM 1691 Views
I did, for what it's worth. - 15/02/2010 07:26:38 AM 1617 Views
Gah. Then I wonder if loyalty of the rest of the crew has something to do with it. - 15/02/2010 04:20:13 PM 1579 Views
That could definitely be the case. - 15/02/2010 04:30:06 PM 1553 Views
Maybe Joker flew slowly. - 09/02/2010 04:22:38 PM 1596 Views
Re: Your Teams, and Your Deaths. - 07/02/2010 03:42:05 PM 1573 Views
Yea, I had one hull upgrade left before going in - 07/02/2010 03:49:57 PM 1447 Views
Re: Your Teams, and Your Deaths. - 13/02/2010 02:55:48 PM 1614 Views
My first time through and all squad members survived. - 16/02/2010 03:09:46 AM 1641 Views
Re: Your Teams, and Your Deaths. - 19/02/2010 10:16:28 PM 1562 Views
I didn't see that one coming - 22/02/2010 08:16:33 PM 1628 Views
Re: I didn't see that one coming - 23/02/2010 03:29:57 AM 1602 Views
Re: I didn't see that one coming - 24/02/2010 10:23:03 AM 1565 Views
I have come across a big problem. - 07/02/2010 06:53:36 PM 1617 Views
Re: I have come across a big problem. - 08/02/2010 03:41:16 PM 1544 Views
Adept seems rather fun... - 08/02/2010 03:49:23 PM 1493 Views
Want FREE Mass Effect 2 DLC? ME 2! (har, har) Bioware bonus goodies detailed inside. - 09/02/2010 07:03:23 PM 1766 Views
Now if only the DLC armors didn't have helmets. - 09/02/2010 07:26:47 PM 1525 Views
I did that for about half the game - 09/02/2010 07:48:14 PM 1564 Views
At first I was wearing the visor - 09/02/2010 11:32:28 PM 1644 Views
Of course, the Shotgun is released AFTER I beat my Vanguard *sigh* - 09/02/2010 11:31:13 PM 1594 Views
It's nice, but you don't miss much if you already had the Claymore shotty w/ an ammo upgrade. *NM* - 10/02/2010 05:16:00 AM 826 Views
I couldn't stand the Claymore - 10/02/2010 05:20:42 AM 1589 Views
Anyone find anything interesting about Zaeed Massani? - 11/02/2010 09:08:16 PM 1627 Views
I enjoy Zaeed. - 11/02/2010 09:22:39 PM 1575 Views
Yeah, I've listened to him alot but it's the same stuff every time. - 12/02/2010 03:14:11 PM 1542 Views
Never put him on my team once. And in the same vein - Jack. - 12/02/2010 01:34:33 AM 1700 Views
Who, what, where? *NM* - 22/02/2010 08:18:31 PM 781 Views
If you bought a new copy of the game, it came with a code for the "Cerberus Network" - 22/02/2010 08:22:18 PM 1534 Views
Oh, I did - 22/02/2010 08:30:21 PM 1521 Views
Is there a way to install the game on the Xbox, so you don't have to switch discs? - 12/02/2010 01:39:07 AM 1564 Views
Good ones have two discs, of course. DVDs can only hold so much. *NM* - 12/02/2010 02:46:39 AM 784 Views
This is the first I've ever seen. *NM* - 12/02/2010 02:51:34 AM 812 Views
I've never understood why people are unhappy with the multiple discs. - 12/02/2010 04:18:42 AM 1574 Views
There are a few others. - 12/02/2010 06:52:01 AM 1504 Views
Since nobody has really answered you....YES - 16/02/2010 10:08:40 PM 1578 Views
Shadow answered him. *NM* - 16/02/2010 10:52:17 PM 808 Views
So far, so great! - 12/02/2010 08:35:00 AM 1548 Views
Re: So far, so great! - 12/02/2010 02:31:43 PM 1652 Views
Re: So far, so great! - 16/02/2010 10:17:12 PM 1611 Views
I love the detail put into this game. - 12/02/2010 02:58:35 PM 1538 Views
Female Turians.... - 12/02/2010 09:05:39 PM 1512 Views
Nope. Don't exist in-game. - 14/02/2010 01:47:23 AM 1473 Views
I believe a krogan female is shown once. - 14/02/2010 02:03:27 AM 1577 Views
No I don't think that's right. - 14/02/2010 08:54:32 AM 1487 Views
Two things make me feel that the ambassador is female. - 14/02/2010 02:50:18 PM 1550 Views
So I just revisited Tuchanka... - 14/02/2010 05:21:39 PM 1660 Views
Asari - 15/02/2010 06:51:10 AM 1618 Views
Not really. - 15/02/2010 10:41:54 PM 1553 Views
I think you're taking him too literally. - 16/02/2010 01:06:11 AM 1558 Views
Yeah, probably was. - 16/02/2010 03:26:46 AM 1650 Views
Yeah, that's what I meant - 16/02/2010 10:51:01 PM 1582 Views
Dammit! I lost Miranda! - 14/02/2010 08:24:55 PM 1568 Views
The final verdict - 22/02/2010 08:06:12 PM 1560 Views
Re: The final verdict - 22/02/2010 09:01:53 PM 1593 Views
Explanation for death - 23/02/2010 02:00:16 AM 1589 Views
Can't be it, then - 23/02/2010 08:02:11 AM 1710 Views
He got taken by the bugs during the biotic bubble sequence? - 23/02/2010 03:25:36 AM 1550 Views
Re: He got taken by the bugs during the biotic bubble sequence? - 23/02/2010 08:03:46 AM 1614 Views
By the way, my game was surprisingly buggy - 23/02/2010 08:49:28 AM 1708 Views
Huh, I never got that. I only got one kind of bug. - 23/02/2010 04:06:17 PM 1498 Views
Re: Huh, I never got that. I only got one kind of bug. - 23/02/2010 04:29:46 PM 1486 Views
I had no bugs of any sort. *NM* - 23/02/2010 05:15:32 PM 835 Views
A complaint about the Morality system. (Or, how Mass Effect semi-killed roleplaying). - 27/02/2010 06:40:35 AM 1673 Views
Re: A complaint about the Morality system. (Or, how Mass Effect semi-killed roleplaying). - 27/02/2010 12:28:29 PM 1496 Views
Re: A complaint about the Morality system. (Or, how Mass Effect semi-killed roleplaying). - 27/02/2010 04:57:43 PM 1560 Views
Re: A complaint about the Morality system. (Or, how Mass Effect semi-killed roleplaying). - 28/02/2010 12:34:31 AM 1621 Views
I suppose. - 28/02/2010 03:29:23 AM 1594 Views
A vital part of role-playing is forcing the player to deal with the consequences of their actions - 27/02/2010 11:53:56 PM 1841 Views
Admittedly, my post was somewhat stream-of-consciousness. - 28/02/2010 03:28:02 AM 1542 Views
That's more understandable. - 28/02/2010 05:58:59 AM 1557 Views
Yeah, the tradeoff already works just fine. - 28/02/2010 06:05:44 AM 1561 Views
ok that's weird - 10/03/2010 06:52:39 PM 1581 Views

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