My thoughts, crippled by not having played the game
Cymbaline Send a noteboard - 03/02/2010 04:52:26 AM
Right you are about not playing the game, though there are two facets to it. The first, like you remember, is the perceived shift away from being an RPG. It's hard, or at the very least a subject you could argue on, to define what constitutes an "RPG" in the video game-related sense. As for things that typically go hand in hand with the genre, I'd say I more or less agree with your list. To address what I think you missed:
Equipment - One I don't believe you mentioned, and one that I've heard has been heavily revamped (read: almost entirely eliminated) in such a fashion that I suspect I'd call it the opposite of an improvement
Exploration - For me, this is a big one. One of the things I loved about the first game was wandering around the space station, talking to all these crazy people from other races and planets, and generally feeling like I was living in another world that was full of people. The Mako sections go under this heading, and definitely could have used improvement, but I'd have opted for improvement, not elimination. I've heard there are some side quests you can run, but that the whole "huge open area and lots of side quests that can be going on at the same time" aspect of the game has been scaled back significantly, if not eliminated outright.
To reiterate what I've heard other people say, it's like they heard all of the complaints against the game - crappy inventory management and equipment choices, boring Mako segments - and rather than improve them, they just eliminated them. Those were things that I actually really like about the RPG genre (equipment and exploration), and to see them axed like that does not make me enthusiastic.
If a friend brings it over (which won't happen, since I'm the only person I know in real life that's even vaguely interested in the franchise), I'm willing to give it a play. I'm not going to spend $60 on it, though (particularly after having been burned by Uncharted 2, which I think will share a key fault with ME2).
This is actually my other problem with the game - the shift toward being an FPS. I know that that genre moves units like nobody's business, and hey, they're in the business of making a dollar, but there is no better way to turn me off of a title than to throw FPS action into the mix.
I hate FPSes. I loathe them. The long story, should anyone care, is that I played them - primarily Quake, Quake 2 (by far the leader), Quake 3, and Counterstrike - almost nonstop for two years, and then fairly frequently for another two. I have burned myself out on the genre completely. When I was little, the only bread my mom would make sandwiches out of was wheat bread. To this day, I can't get a piece of wheat bread past my throat. Same thing. I'm not saying that FPS games suck (though I do think the FPS genre is one of the most stale, overdone, lowest-common-denominator, and innovation-free segments of the video game world, but that's another story), but what I am saying is that I do not like it, and I will not like it even if it's good, and even if it's great. It's still an FPS. Some people don't listen to rap, some people don't eat Mexican, some people don't watch TV; I don't play FPSes. They are like digging a ditch or watching grass grow or getting punched in the back repeatedly - they are the very opposite of fun.
Which brings me back to the producer's comment: I suffered through the combat in the first - suffered, as I absolutely hated it - so that I could level up, get new equipment, explore, do side quests, and see the story through. When I hear that the second game has ratcheted up the elements I hate to the point that they're now dominant and eliminated a significant portion of what I endured that shit for, I'm not interested in playing anymore. Maybe the story is more taut and even more well-executed. Maybe the character advancement is intact and refined. It doesn't matter, because the FPS still overrides everything. Even if the biotic plays more like an RPG, it's still an FPS. I do not buy that it's that different. You still hide behind crates, you still try to put enemies in the center of your crosshairs, you still shoot people. I played a biotic in the first game (if my memory serves), and I did not enjoy combat in the least. From everything I have read, Mass Effect moved from 1/3 FPS & 2/3 RPG to 1/3 RPG and 2/3 FPS. That is the difference between playing and not playing for me.
Equipment - One I don't believe you mentioned, and one that I've heard has been heavily revamped (read: almost entirely eliminated) in such a fashion that I suspect I'd call it the opposite of an improvement
Exploration - For me, this is a big one. One of the things I loved about the first game was wandering around the space station, talking to all these crazy people from other races and planets, and generally feeling like I was living in another world that was full of people. The Mako sections go under this heading, and definitely could have used improvement, but I'd have opted for improvement, not elimination. I've heard there are some side quests you can run, but that the whole "huge open area and lots of side quests that can be going on at the same time" aspect of the game has been scaled back significantly, if not eliminated outright.
To reiterate what I've heard other people say, it's like they heard all of the complaints against the game - crappy inventory management and equipment choices, boring Mako segments - and rather than improve them, they just eliminated them. Those were things that I actually really like about the RPG genre (equipment and exploration), and to see them axed like that does not make me enthusiastic.
Ultimately, I think that you or anyone else who is upset about the perceived move away from RPG towards shooter should give it a shot first, Cymbaline.
If a friend brings it over (which won't happen, since I'm the only person I know in real life that's even vaguely interested in the franchise), I'm willing to give it a play. I'm not going to spend $60 on it, though (particularly after having been burned by Uncharted 2, which I think will share a key fault with ME2).
Oh yeah, if you read my other post you know that I talked to the producer for a little while. One of the questions I asked him was if he had an answer for some of my friends who were leery of the game because of the shift towards shooter. He advised me that "they" (and I was thinking of you, Cymbaline) should avoid the run-and-gun classes, like the soldier, and try the others, like the infiltrator, biotic, etc. They tend to be less action and less FPS, and play more similarly to a traditional RPG. Straight from the horses' mouth, so take it with a grain of salt, but hey.
This is actually my other problem with the game - the shift toward being an FPS. I know that that genre moves units like nobody's business, and hey, they're in the business of making a dollar, but there is no better way to turn me off of a title than to throw FPS action into the mix.
I hate FPSes. I loathe them. The long story, should anyone care, is that I played them - primarily Quake, Quake 2 (by far the leader), Quake 3, and Counterstrike - almost nonstop for two years, and then fairly frequently for another two. I have burned myself out on the genre completely. When I was little, the only bread my mom would make sandwiches out of was wheat bread. To this day, I can't get a piece of wheat bread past my throat. Same thing. I'm not saying that FPS games suck (though I do think the FPS genre is one of the most stale, overdone, lowest-common-denominator, and innovation-free segments of the video game world, but that's another story), but what I am saying is that I do not like it, and I will not like it even if it's good, and even if it's great. It's still an FPS. Some people don't listen to rap, some people don't eat Mexican, some people don't watch TV; I don't play FPSes. They are like digging a ditch or watching grass grow or getting punched in the back repeatedly - they are the very opposite of fun.
Which brings me back to the producer's comment: I suffered through the combat in the first - suffered, as I absolutely hated it - so that I could level up, get new equipment, explore, do side quests, and see the story through. When I hear that the second game has ratcheted up the elements I hate to the point that they're now dominant and eliminated a significant portion of what I endured that shit for, I'm not interested in playing anymore. Maybe the story is more taut and even more well-executed. Maybe the character advancement is intact and refined. It doesn't matter, because the FPS still overrides everything. Even if the biotic plays more like an RPG, it's still an FPS. I do not buy that it's that different. You still hide behind crates, you still try to put enemies in the center of your crosshairs, you still shoot people. I played a biotic in the first game (if my memory serves), and I did not enjoy combat in the least. From everything I have read, Mass Effect moved from 1/3 FPS & 2/3 RPG to 1/3 RPG and 2/3 FPS. That is the difference between playing and not playing for me.
www.scienceofshape.com | www.ancillarymusic.com | www.whysohostile.com
Why not? Let's have a Mass Effect thread.
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Character discussion: Mordin Solus
- 02/02/2010 06:28:41 PM
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Mordin Solus is great
- 02/02/2010 08:21:26 PM
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Actually, that's what happened to me too.
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The Illusive man
- 02/02/2010 08:34:09 PM
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I didn't even realize that's who he was.
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"I'm having trouble hearing you. I'm getting a lot of bullshit on this line." *NM*
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Does she take the helmet off? *NM*
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I went simple - Miranda.
- 07/02/2010 06:32:25 AM
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Which reminds me that I always wondered...
- 07/02/2010 11:54:14 AM
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You probably wouldn't be able to woo anyone by being a total dick. *NM*
- 07/02/2010 03:32:41 PM
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I was lucky enough to meet the game's producer... (No spoilers)
- 02/02/2010 10:58:59 PM
2128 Views
No spoilers here either, as per my rules.
Regarding the ammo:
- 03/02/2010 04:51:54 AM
1919 Views
Regarding the ammo:
- 03/02/2010 04:51:54 AM
1919 Views
I just want to be part of this....that said, Best Buy is no longer selling ME:1
- 02/02/2010 11:16:51 PM
2062 Views
Could well be.
- 03/02/2010 04:52:49 AM
1858 Views
Glad the PC version was $50, at the risk of sounding like a snob.
- 03/02/2010 04:01:52 PM
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Mass Effect 1 vs 2: RPG-shooter vs Shooter-rpg (This is for you, Cymbaline!) (No spoilers)
- 02/02/2010 11:28:24 PM
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My thoughts, crippled by not having played the game
- 03/02/2010 04:52:26 AM
2173 Views
The "Holy crap that was awesome" moments. SPOILERS
- 03/02/2010 11:27:55 PM
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Re: The "Holy crap that was awesome" moments. SPOILERS
- 04/02/2010 04:59:54 AM
1925 Views
Re: The "Holy crap that was awesome" moments. SPOILERS
- 04/02/2010 06:16:29 AM
2054 Views
Well. . .somewhat, I guess.
- 04/02/2010 06:43:02 AM
2105 Views
Re: Well. . .somewhat, I guess.
- 04/02/2010 03:32:26 PM
2031 Views
You know what? I'll actually buy that. I appreciate the explanation.
- 04/02/2010 06:30:37 PM
1840 Views
A couple of more things......
- 16/02/2010 12:41:19 AM
2128 Views
Game was too easy, primary plotline too short
- 04/02/2010 09:03:52 PM
1958 Views
Nice.
I'm playing through on Insanity now, and I think it's a good challenge.
- 05/02/2010 02:17:02 AM
1876 Views
I'm playing through on Insanity now, and I think it's a good challenge.
- 05/02/2010 02:17:02 AM
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Whats your character build?
- 05/02/2010 02:45:31 PM
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Ok, so male or female Shepherd?
- 05/02/2010 01:50:23 AM
1899 Views
Hm. This brings up a thought.
- 05/02/2010 01:52:37 AM
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Male for my first playthrough, female for my second.
- 05/02/2010 02:28:24 AM
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Male so far. I plan on playing the female Shepard next playthrough. *NM*
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Your Teams, and Your Deaths.
- 07/02/2010 06:30:25 AM
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Re: Your Teams, and Your Deaths.
- 07/02/2010 09:07:17 AM
2009 Views
Do you know...
- 07/02/2010 03:46:59 PM
1832 Views
Re: Do you know...
- 07/02/2010 04:31:29 PM
1940 Views
Awesome. Thanks! *NM*
- 07/02/2010 04:40:59 PM
1033 Views
Yeah, that's what I did.
- 07/02/2010 06:37:50 PM
1752 Views
Hmmm...
- 09/02/2010 03:48:48 PM
1805 Views
Strange.
- 09/02/2010 04:19:04 PM
1920 Views
me too
- 13/02/2010 03:01:05 PM
1907 Views
Did you do Legion's loyalty mission?
- 15/02/2010 05:52:36 AM
2008 Views
I did, for what it's worth.
- 15/02/2010 07:26:38 AM
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Gah. Then I wonder if loyalty of the rest of the crew has something to do with it.
- 15/02/2010 04:20:13 PM
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I have come across a big problem.
- 07/02/2010 06:53:36 PM
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Want FREE Mass Effect 2 DLC? ME 2! (har, har) Bioware bonus goodies detailed inside.
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Now if only the DLC armors didn't have helmets.
- 09/02/2010 07:26:47 PM
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Of course, the Shotgun is released AFTER I beat my Vanguard *sigh*
- 09/02/2010 11:31:13 PM
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It's nice, but you don't miss much if you already had the Claymore shotty w/ an ammo upgrade. *NM*
- 10/02/2010 05:16:00 AM
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Anyone find anything interesting about Zaeed Massani?
- 11/02/2010 09:08:16 PM
1893 Views
I enjoy Zaeed.
- 11/02/2010 09:22:39 PM
1853 Views
I'm near your spot in the story and completely agree. One-sided conversations, but worthwhile. *NM*
- 11/02/2010 10:20:47 PM
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Yeah, I've listened to him alot but it's the same stuff every time.
- 12/02/2010 03:14:11 PM
1801 Views
Who, what, where?
*NM*
- 22/02/2010 08:18:31 PM
940 Views
*NM*
- 22/02/2010 08:18:31 PM
940 Views
If you bought a new copy of the game, it came with a code for the "Cerberus Network"
- 22/02/2010 08:22:18 PM
1809 Views
Is there a way to install the game on the Xbox, so you don't have to switch discs?
- 12/02/2010 01:39:07 AM
1841 Views
Good ones have two discs, of course.
DVDs can only hold so much. *NM*
- 12/02/2010 02:46:39 AM
941 Views
DVDs can only hold so much. *NM*
- 12/02/2010 02:46:39 AM
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This is the first I've ever seen. *NM*
- 12/02/2010 02:51:34 AM
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I've never understood why people are unhappy with the multiple discs.
- 12/02/2010 04:18:42 AM
1861 Views
So far, so great!
- 12/02/2010 08:35:00 AM
1859 Views
Re: So far, so great!
- 12/02/2010 02:31:43 PM
1943 Views
Re: So far, so great!
- 16/02/2010 10:17:12 PM
1882 Views
Nope, I was referring to honest-to-goodness cheating. lol
- 16/02/2010 11:03:53 PM
1939 Views
Ahh, I just figured you were on console as I am, so.....the grind will continue I guess
*NM*
- 17/02/2010 06:41:59 PM
1018 Views
*NM*
- 17/02/2010 06:41:59 PM
1018 Views
I love the detail put into this game.
- 12/02/2010 02:58:35 PM
1853 Views
"Our amino acids aren't even compatable so there's no risk if we go natural."
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1862 Views
Re: "Our amino acids aren't even compatable so there's no risk if we go natural."
- 12/02/2010 07:16:21 PM
1798 Views
"Technically we don't even have sex drives... oh, she is rather flexible...." *NM*
- 12/02/2010 07:20:53 PM
962 Views
Female Turians....
- 12/02/2010 09:05:39 PM
1801 Views
Nope. Don't exist in-game.
- 14/02/2010 01:47:23 AM
1737 Views
I believe a krogan female is shown once.
- 14/02/2010 02:03:27 AM
1847 Views
No I don't think that's right.
- 14/02/2010 08:54:32 AM
1786 Views
Asari
- 15/02/2010 06:51:10 AM
1885 Views
Not really.
- 15/02/2010 10:41:54 PM
1826 Views
Though it is fun seeing the asari coupled with basically every race under the sun.
- 15/02/2010 10:54:41 PM
1849 Views
The final verdict
- 22/02/2010 08:06:12 PM
1870 Views
By the way, my game was surprisingly buggy
- 23/02/2010 08:49:28 AM
2006 Views
A complaint about the Morality system. (Or, how Mass Effect semi-killed roleplaying).
- 27/02/2010 06:40:35 AM
1975 Views
Re: A complaint about the Morality system. (Or, how Mass Effect semi-killed roleplaying).
- 27/02/2010 12:28:29 PM
1817 Views
Re: A complaint about the Morality system. (Or, how Mass Effect semi-killed roleplaying).
- 27/02/2010 04:57:43 PM
1831 Views
Re: A complaint about the Morality system. (Or, how Mass Effect semi-killed roleplaying).
- 28/02/2010 12:34:31 AM
1889 Views
A vital part of role-playing is forcing the player to deal with the consequences of their actions
- 27/02/2010 11:53:56 PM
2143 Views
Admittedly, my post was somewhat stream-of-consciousness.
- 28/02/2010 03:28:02 AM
1859 Views
