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They don't get ordained at 12, and lay people do not get to preach. Cannoli Send a noteboard - 21/06/2017 08:59:22 PM

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Not with any of your points about her age, though. It's true of course that 12 would be unusually young for sexual activity, but it's a normal enough age to experience sexual attraction, especially considering how girls are entering puberty earlier than a few generations ago. More to the point, though, while the term may be 'sexual orientation', it refers more broadly to romantic interests. And it's perfectly normal even for children of considerably lower ages to experience romantic attraction. So it's really not that absurd for a child to consider herself a lesbian even before puberty. There may be cases in which that shifts during or after puberty, but that doesn't mean the child's environment should completely ignore it.

So then she's making a straw man argument, or you are. Her speech was all sorts of nonsense about how she is so wonderful and also a lesbian, so therefore there is nothing wrong with being a lesbian. IDK what the Mormon doctrine is on temptation and sins and so forth, but in traditional religion, there is also nothing wrong with having sexual feelings or interests or attraction. The sin, the "horrible sinner" issue to which she referred pertains to a category of specific activities, ALL of which are way beyond the pale for 12 year olds. In other words, if she's right, everyone owes Milo Yiannopolis a massive apology and a book deal.
So unsurprisingly, I strongly disagree that sexual orientation, just because it happens to contain the word 'sex', should be a taboo subject for children.

I cannot fully articulate the enormity of your lack of a right to tell people that their 12 year-olds are old enough to hear about sex. It is an individual level of awareness and capacity, that should be determined by people who have the longest and closest degree of acquaintance with said children and presumed to have their best interests at heart. In other words, their parents. If parents think their kids are old enough to hear a talk about why lesbians are awesome, that's their right. No one else has the right to subject their children to such a talk however, absent the parent's prior approval. As I said in the original post, no one brought their kid to that event expecting to have them exposed to that, and the speaker and her idiot parents had no right to impose it on them.
Even if you accept that sex itself should be a taboo subject for 12 year olds, which I don't but will pretend for the sake of the argument, you can and should still discuss the romantic aspects of 'sexual' orientation with kids of that age.
Insert the word "your" into the appropriate place, and the statement is fine. Without it, absolutely not.
Lastly on the more general point of what the opinion of a 12 year old is worth (note: I'm not saying any of the following necessarily applies to this particular 12 year old), I'm not telling you anything new by pointing out how frequently children of that age have historically entered marriages,
Not necessarily a good thing.
Experience with that practice inspired people to start raising the ages of consent and marriage in the civilized world.
taken an active role in ruling states or done other things that are rather more demanding than giving a speech about their sexual orientation.
Ditto. And generally in cases where responsible people judged them capable. It was usually NOT the rule of thumb of kids of that age, or even substantially older, to be so accorded such privileges. Even the marriages, for example, were contracted on their behalf by parents, and their own opinions on the matter largely superfluous.
That's not to say they should be treated as adults, of course they are still lacking in experience and they aren't fully grown either physically or mentally, but 'absolutely no point of view of any possible interest of value to the adult world' is ridiculous.

By way of illustration, Catholic canon law has 7 years old as the 'age of reason' which is the minimum requirement for things like confirmation and confession. I dare say it's very exceptional to be confirmed at 7, but I for one was confirmed in sixth grade, the customary age around here, when most of my classmates were 11 or 12, and I was 10. Similarly, bar mitzvahs and bat miztvahs are done at ages 12 or 13. I think it's safe to say that Western religion generally does attach value to the opinion of a 12 year old.

Not at all. And I know lots of people who were confirmed at 7, BTW. It does not entitle you to anything. It does not change your status or your rights or privileges. An unconfirmed adult is still of superior status and dignity to a confirmed child. Confirmation or the age of reason are entirely internal states of being, between you and God. "Age of reason" merely means the age at which someone can be held responsible for their own sins, and thus need to confess them, and inversely, the age at which it is possible to appreciate and respect the Eucharist.
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
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So the Mormons cut the mike on a lesbian coming out to her church...what is wrong with people? - 20/06/2017 05:31:05 AM 959 Views
You should apologize to Justus of Beauvais. Or whatever you quasi-idolators do to pray to not-God. *NM* - 20/06/2017 09:35:33 AM 228 Views
Can we get an English translation of this comment? *NM* - 21/06/2017 07:09:59 PM 216 Views
Hand tremors! I grow old! *NM* - 22/06/2017 12:01:17 AM 225 Views
I was being wildly offensive about Cannoli's religious practices to see what it felt like. *NM* - 22/06/2017 03:04:17 AM 330 Views
Isn't it fun? *NM* - 22/06/2017 10:09:55 AM 215 Views
I admit nothing, papist. (yes it is) *NM* - 22/06/2017 10:55:30 AM 233 Views
There's bigger issues here then her sexuality... - 20/06/2017 08:43:52 PM 487 Views
Do you remember yourself from when you were 12? *NM* - 21/06/2017 02:32:24 PM 588 Views
I do and like her I was a lesbian *NM* - 21/06/2017 06:58:46 PM 236 Views
Yes. And? *NM* - 21/06/2017 08:59:47 PM 229 Views
I'd agree on the points about not seeing what's so terrible about the church's reaction. - 21/06/2017 07:53:38 PM 408 Views
They don't get ordained at 12, and lay people do not get to preach. - 21/06/2017 08:59:22 PM 524 Views
Yes, well, I'm not saying her speech was necessarily all that good. - 21/06/2017 10:08:26 PM 569 Views
Because they don't write that kind of thing down. - 21/06/2017 11:58:29 PM 497 Views

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