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Because they don't write that kind of thing down. Cannoli Send a noteboard - 21/06/2017 11:58:29 PM


Which, of course, doesn't mean that the church has to agree with it. By the way, genuine question, which I can't easily find the answer to: would the Church qualify kissing (the kind involving tongues, obviously) as a sexual and sinful act?

Is that ever an end in and of itself? Not often. It's usually a prelude to other things, or at least a warm-up until you feel like going further. On its own, that kind of intense kissing can be an occasion of sin, but it really depends on how far you take it and what your attitude is toward what you are doing. Is it an innocent, if extended, demonstration of affection, or is it an attempt to mutually exploit one another's flesh for shallow gratification. For most couples and most couplings, the truth is probably somewhere on a sliding scale between those two extremes. It's something to be done with self-discipline and respect, and the Church is not going to go right out and say it's automatically a sin, but it almost certainly falls well within Jesus's admonition against looking at a woman with lust in your heart, or "objectification" in current parlance. If you're not married, "anything you wouldn't do in front of other people" is a good rule of thumb for the no go zone.
You realize you said this in reply to a paragraph where I wasn't even talking about sex, right? Talking about people being straight or gay is not automatically 'talking about sex', it's just talking about romantic relationships. That's perfectly compatible with the usual explanations for children on relationships and on how children are made.
Neither was I. I said "lesbians" and I alluded to my original post, where I said the topic of the gathering was probably not a coming out storytime. Parents have the right to determine what set of morals they are going to teach their children, and there are topics of discussion that can be inappropriate even without bringing up sex.

The 'should' part was a personal opinion which I wouldn't want to force on people. But while I could sympathize with parents complaining about their children having been unexpectedly exposed to a speech about sex, I can't say the same about the case where the speech is about gay or lesbian relationships or inclinations, without touching on sex.
Part of the objection to the whole homosexual issue is that it IS about sex. Otherwise, it's called being friends. All that reasonable people find objectionable is the mutual self-abuse being practiced, and the double standards involved in the debate, or lack there of, about the moral and spiritual drawbacks of said practices. And since we are all but expressly forbidden from publically talking about the harm it could do all of our kids, we especially don't want it being publically promoted. No one gives a shit if you have romantic yearnings for the opposite sex, but a lot of people are sincerely convinced that gratifying the accompanying physical urges is no good for you, and in extreme cases, can render you unfit for polite society. And they would naturally like to quarantine that, the way the PC brigade does, say, smoking. You can disingenuously claim she's only talking about love, but then why did SHE bring up sin, which could only be a reference to sex?

I'm hardly saying we need to return to that, or that we should reduce the age of adulthood. Just that 12 year olds can certainly have the abilities to do and say meaningful things - maybe not as meaningful/valuable as what they or others can do and say as adults, but meaningful nevertheless.
I remain skeptical.

Interesting, about the confirmation at 7. I'd never heard of that happening myself (in here we do have a religious ceremony at 7 or 8, but that's just the 'first communion', with confirmation following 4 years later). And my (very) quick check suggested that American parishes were more likely to go for confirmation at a higher age than our 12, than at a lower one. My bad.
It's fluid. Confirmation can be as early as a year after First Communion (which is the primary qualfication these days), and some people actually don't get around to it until adulthood. I was 19, even though I practised all my life, spent 11 years in Catholic school, and made my first confession and First Communion at 6. But many of my second grade classmates made their Confirmation then.
As for the rest - you don't think it's a little ridiculous to state that a kid of 7 can be held responsible for their own sins, but a kid of 12 can't express any opinion worth listening to? Which, once again, isn't about this particular 12 year old or the validity of her speech.
Nope. At that age, obediance is all that is really necessary. And even for adults, preaching isn't really a thing, and opinions about what is or isn't sinful aren't all that approved either. I can't imagine why I would care about anyone else's opinion on what is a sin. God's is the only one that matters, since that is Who will be judging me for it. If Savannah at whatever age thinks it is a sin, I don't need her adding to the list of things I need to watch out for, and if she doesn't think it is, I'm not going to risk my eternal salvation on her opinion without a more informed source backing her up. Savannah's opinion on theology and morals is exactly as valuable and informed as her medical opinions. I prefer someone with more than half a decade of higher education, and a lifetime devoted to the practice.
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
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So the Mormons cut the mike on a lesbian coming out to her church...what is wrong with people? - 20/06/2017 05:31:05 AM 959 Views
You should apologize to Justus of Beauvais. Or whatever you quasi-idolators do to pray to not-God. *NM* - 20/06/2017 09:35:33 AM 228 Views
Can we get an English translation of this comment? *NM* - 21/06/2017 07:09:59 PM 216 Views
Hand tremors! I grow old! *NM* - 22/06/2017 12:01:17 AM 225 Views
I was being wildly offensive about Cannoli's religious practices to see what it felt like. *NM* - 22/06/2017 03:04:17 AM 330 Views
Isn't it fun? *NM* - 22/06/2017 10:09:55 AM 215 Views
I admit nothing, papist. (yes it is) *NM* - 22/06/2017 10:55:30 AM 233 Views
There's bigger issues here then her sexuality... - 20/06/2017 08:43:52 PM 487 Views
Do you remember yourself from when you were 12? *NM* - 21/06/2017 02:32:24 PM 588 Views
I do and like her I was a lesbian *NM* - 21/06/2017 06:58:46 PM 237 Views
Yes. And? *NM* - 21/06/2017 08:59:47 PM 229 Views
I'd agree on the points about not seeing what's so terrible about the church's reaction. - 21/06/2017 07:53:38 PM 409 Views
They don't get ordained at 12, and lay people do not get to preach. - 21/06/2017 08:59:22 PM 524 Views
Yes, well, I'm not saying her speech was necessarily all that good. - 21/06/2017 10:08:26 PM 570 Views
Because they don't write that kind of thing down. - 21/06/2017 11:58:29 PM 498 Views

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