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Just what kind of reaction did you expect to get with a post like this? Legolas Send a noteboard - 02/10/2017 10:10:34 PM

And as for your main point - in some ways this reminds me of the health care debate. In both cases, the US is an outlier compared to its peers, and most foreigners as well as a large number of Americans think it would be better if its system was closer to that of those other countries.

But even if you accept that premise, and an equally large or larger number of Americans would not, it's far from obvious how one would get from here to there. You can't just throw a switch and start doing things the other way, and trying to make the transition could well make things worse before they get better. If they get better.

In the case of guns, the difference between the US and its peers isn't just in the laws. It's in the sheer amount of guns already present in the US, the movement of arms in both directions across the Mexican border, the levels of gun use involved in other crimes such as robbery, and so on. Simply changing the laws to those of other countries isn't going to automatically recreate the outcomes of those other countries.

I am in fact broadly in favour of gun control and very much not a fan of the NRA, but let's not pretend that this kind of thing is going to disappear overnight if the laws are changed. And as for the timing, I'm not sure it's so much about time, as it is about simply having the facts before you try using the tragedy for your cause - which can be almost immediately sometimes, but in this case it isn't.

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The US is now 273/275 for mass shootings this year! - 02/10/2017 06:07:38 PM 1839 Views
Perhaps we could also wait for the bodies to get cold before politicizing a tragedy? *NM* - 02/10/2017 07:11:18 PM 492 Views
Indeed. - 02/10/2017 07:32:41 PM 774 Views
yes. - 02/10/2017 07:41:15 PM 797 Views
Well, to be fair, dude ain't got no crown. - 02/10/2017 07:43:31 PM 793 Views
I suppose lack of a crown could be disconcerting - 02/10/2017 07:47:46 PM 812 Views
Does that mean uncircumcised? - 02/10/2017 09:16:23 PM 721 Views
Same here. - 02/10/2017 09:15:29 PM 817 Views
No. It's a willful failure of policy, just like the last thousands times. We fucking can't. - 02/10/2017 07:47:16 PM 789 Views
Yes.You.Could. - 02/10/2017 07:49:17 PM 810 Views
Because not politicizing the first thousand worked so well... - 02/10/2017 07:52:09 PM 810 Views
Really? - 02/10/2017 07:55:22 PM 775 Views
double post for emphasis. *NM* - 02/10/2017 07:49:17 PM 507 Views
Oh and "also"? That comment was preemptively aimed at the very sentiment you were expressing. *NM* - 02/10/2017 07:54:12 PM 492 Views
It failed. *NM* - 02/10/2017 07:56:19 PM 472 Views
Then you misunderstood it's purpose. *NM* - 02/10/2017 07:58:15 PM 483 Views
doubtful. - 02/10/2017 08:00:38 PM 676 Views
The dick move is the continual inaction and call for silence. - 02/10/2017 08:05:24 PM 756 Views
One or two days would defeat your purpose? - 02/10/2017 08:15:49 PM 829 Views
And what if someone goes out an shoots another 50+ people tomorrow? - 02/10/2017 08:18:31 PM 724 Views
Your post on a website with 100 active users would prevent that? *NM* - 02/10/2017 08:22:25 PM 477 Views
Just another argument aimed at silencing discussion *NM* - 02/10/2017 08:27:27 PM 464 Views
If you want discussion how about making specific points or suggestions? - 02/10/2017 08:31:09 PM 755 Views
Stop attempting to prevent discourse because it offends your sensibilities. - 02/10/2017 08:39:47 PM 782 Views
oh fuck off - 02/10/2017 08:45:05 PM 771 Views
Oh please, the problem isn't a lack of ideas. - 02/10/2017 09:04:18 PM 738 Views
You do realize that the guns used in Las Vegas may have already been illegal. - 02/10/2017 09:14:47 PM 752 Views
Or it may have been modified with a completely legal $95 stock - 02/10/2017 09:30:44 PM 715 Views
Multiple firearm experts here have stated that audio analysis makes it unlikely... - 02/10/2017 09:42:20 PM 771 Views
Re: Multiple firearm experts here have stated that audio analysis makes it unlikely... - 02/10/2017 09:53:23 PM 790 Views
People who go to the bother of obtaining illegal weapons in order to kill people... - 02/10/2017 09:59:52 PM 750 Views
That is why you limit access to them. *NM* - 02/10/2017 10:21:32 PM 450 Views
It should be noted.... - 02/10/2017 10:13:19 PM 747 Views
All the more reason for federal regulation on the matter *NM* - 02/10/2017 10:20:49 PM 475 Views
The federal law wouldn't do much more.... - 02/10/2017 10:33:46 PM 782 Views
And because a law only makes a problem slightly better - 02/10/2017 10:40:00 PM 747 Views
And that would be the difference between you and me.... - 02/10/2017 10:45:13 PM 760 Views
You sail in the ocean blind long enough and eventually you hit an iceberg. - 02/10/2017 10:51:24 PM 774 Views
Again.... - 02/10/2017 11:07:20 PM 772 Views
If there's an average of 1 per day, when are we not mourning? - 02/10/2017 08:03:46 PM 769 Views
How about when we have better and more complete information, for one? - 02/10/2017 08:11:18 PM 707 Views
A 64 year old man walked into a hotel with 10 guns - 02/10/2017 08:17:24 PM 825 Views
Which hypothesis? *NM* - 02/10/2017 08:20:51 PM 474 Views
The United States has an unaddressed problem with firearm violence. *NM* - 02/10/2017 08:23:28 PM 496 Views
I agree with that premise. *NM* - 02/10/2017 08:26:58 PM 449 Views
I will always agree with that, - 02/10/2017 08:19:58 PM 795 Views
That was my point. - 02/10/2017 08:24:56 PM 856 Views
Eh, well - 02/10/2017 08:31:43 PM 741 Views
jeez, twice in one thread. *NM* - 02/10/2017 08:33:13 PM 453 Views
Weirdly, I also agree with this - 02/10/2017 08:42:26 PM 688 Views
See Roland00's reply. - 02/10/2017 08:47:57 PM 680 Views
Again - 02/10/2017 08:59:44 PM 700 Views
Nobody said "your country is stupid" - 02/10/2017 09:06:54 PM 707 Views
Lets postpone the discussion to 10/10 - 02/10/2017 08:36:57 PM 778 Views
I have no problem with discussion. - 02/10/2017 08:40:43 PM 744 Views
But, but, you lose a news cycle that way! - 02/10/2017 09:14:19 PM 733 Views
"And we wonder why we have shootings like this at all..." - 02/10/2017 09:40:40 PM 696 Views
Wow step away from the spicy nachos Tom *NM* - 02/10/2017 09:51:00 PM 532 Views
Make that 274, 3 people dead and 2 wounded in Lawrence. - 02/10/2017 08:22:21 PM 736 Views
So what you would you say the solution would be? - 02/10/2017 08:50:54 PM 748 Views
Exactly. *NM* - 02/10/2017 08:52:53 PM 418 Views
Any number of the dozens of pieces of legislation that is proposed *every time* this happens - 02/10/2017 09:11:26 PM 829 Views
And yet, almost every time shootings happen, none of those measures would have done anything. - 02/10/2017 09:22:51 PM 754 Views
Speculation and ignored macro-effects - 02/10/2017 09:39:30 PM 745 Views
An honest Question - 02/10/2017 10:06:16 PM 708 Views
The second amendment is part of the problem. *NM* - 02/10/2017 10:30:21 PM 488 Views
And now you just lost... - 02/10/2017 10:39:21 PM 760 Views
Oh the fight is already won - 02/10/2017 10:50:00 PM 767 Views
I would disagree.... - 02/10/2017 11:09:36 PM 745 Views
I don't think you're very educated as to Second Amendment jurisprudence. - 03/10/2017 12:13:27 AM 837 Views
Why let silly things like facts get in the way of a good polemic? - 03/10/2017 01:24:24 AM 787 Views
And it's difficult to overstate how much they advanced its reach. - 03/10/2017 04:31:58 AM 771 Views
Yes I actually knew that - 03/10/2017 04:37:40 AM 812 Views
Re: Yes I actually knew that - 03/10/2017 09:18:08 AM 763 Views
Question for you Ghav but also for any other RAFOite - 03/10/2017 06:51:47 AM 809 Views
It's likely the Ferguson Effect. *NM* - 03/10/2017 09:47:42 PM 441 Views
with a corresponding rise in gang activity and violence *NM* - 03/10/2017 10:07:18 PM 469 Views
This too needs to be studied the Ferguson Effect - 03/10/2017 10:43:02 PM 918 Views
some of these would never fly here - 02/10/2017 10:14:57 PM 781 Views
And just to say it.... - 02/10/2017 10:18:06 PM 766 Views
Re: some of these would never fly here - 02/10/2017 10:37:24 PM 816 Views
some of these would never fly here - 02/10/2017 10:14:57 PM 687 Views
So let's work through these... - 02/10/2017 10:02:09 PM 817 Views
Post to my own post.....wow *NM* - 02/10/2017 10:02:19 PM 438 Views
Re: So let's work through these... - 02/10/2017 10:20:08 PM 758 Views
Ok...let's talk - 02/10/2017 10:32:58 PM 743 Views
Re: Ok...let's talk - 02/10/2017 11:02:44 PM 968 Views
Dialogue....good. - 02/10/2017 11:17:46 PM 747 Views
Just what kind of reaction did you expect to get with a post like this? - 02/10/2017 10:10:34 PM 784 Views
For people to think about the problem rather than token sympathies. - 02/10/2017 10:28:59 PM 829 Views
And the proof for that is....? *NM* - 02/10/2017 10:41:29 PM 474 Views
Killing people is the whole point of guns. The real issue is who gets killed. - 02/10/2017 10:55:59 PM 837 Views
No use putting someone in prison if you don't lock the door after them *NM* - 02/10/2017 11:04:12 PM 448 Views
But after they get out.... - 02/10/2017 11:39:39 PM 743 Views
I don't think you're going about it in a very smart way, then. - 03/10/2017 12:23:33 AM 901 Views
It's never the right occasion to start talking about it. - 04/10/2017 05:39:15 AM 709 Views
But he was offering Candy, how can you say no to Candy? *NM* - 02/10/2017 10:31:24 PM 489 Views
Re: The US is now 273/275 for mass shootings this year! - 03/10/2017 12:58:31 AM 777 Views
Oh please - 04/10/2017 05:36:12 AM 728 Views

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