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I enjoy this thread muchly...yet I will not participate besides saying Roland00 Send a noteboard - 19/01/2018 10:46:40 PM

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This is cool. Linguistic history is pretty fun, especially when you run across examples of books with these letters still being used. And I had always wondered about the history of ſ and when we stopped using it.

I enjoy this thread muchly...yet I will not participate besides saying (clicks preview and goes back and says OMG I am writting way too much after announcing I will not participate )

I enjoy this thread muchly...yet I will not participate besides saying ...The Ampersand is definitely a logogram, and not a letter or ligature.

(the unintended rant below)

I love this subject, but language can be like the abyss and you can go too deep into staring into the abyss. Eventually talking about purity of form with what is an Alphabet letter, what is an Abjad, Abugida, Ligature, Syllabary, Logogram, and so on can just get insane.

But what brings the insanity back to the sublime is trying to use the language in day to day use. The infinite now becomes definite again. Asking why now becomes useful by transitioning to how. It is this transitioning from why to how brings me sublime joy. It is what Plato in Philebus (with the voice of Socrates) has a dialogue of "what is the Good" and during which Plato talks about two different forms of the good , things you can count and things that have form but are uncountable (the limited and the limitless) and then Plato transitions to a 3rd form of "the good" and how this 3rd form is better than the first two. Followed almost instantly by a 4th type of the good, where Plato talks about the 4th type of the Good which also mixes the limitless and the limited like the 3rd but this 4th type of the Good is so much better for it orders nature. Aka knowledge and wisdom is awesome, but it is so much better when it has to be used in day to day life, for example when you teach it to someone else.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philebus

Yeah Language is awesome, but it is also a dæmonic abyss. Nods!

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The Fascinating History of 10 Extra Letters the English Alphabet Used to Have The Shrike - 18/01/2018 06:35:45 PM 1090 Views
I have to take issue with the & and the "long s" Tom - 18/01/2018 07:28:09 PM 445 Views
Ok, let's define what a letter is. The Shrike - 18/01/2018 11:25:22 PM 487 Views
Yes, the long "s" is just a variant. It didn't have a name in Old English. Tom - 19/01/2018 03:39:51 PM 637 Views
I don't think not having a name in Old English matters here. The Shrike - 19/01/2018 05:05:47 PM 738 Views
I think it does, quite definitively. Tom - 20/01/2018 08:46:24 PM 446 Views
All th Germans I have known have considered ß to be a letter. The Shrike - 20/01/2018 11:01:40 PM 501 Views
ß is a ligature Tom - 21/01/2018 04:04:48 PM 450 Views
That article is even sloppier than the first Tom - 20/01/2018 09:01:33 PM 432 Views
All letters were once "fake". The Shrike - 20/01/2018 10:59:11 PM 516 Views
Isn't that kind of idealist Roland00 - 21/01/2018 08:02:14 AM 476 Views
Realist perhaps The Shrike - 22/01/2018 01:54:14 AM 441 Views
Pivots Roland00 - 22/01/2018 03:43:56 AM 547 Views
Meanwhile The Shrike - 22/01/2018 12:23:13 PM 407 Views
Olympics are grand aren't they? *NM* Roland00 - 22/01/2018 05:23:56 PM 259 Views
Deutschland, Deutschland! The Shrike - 22/01/2018 05:26:50 PM 354 Views
No, actually that's quite incorrect. Tom - 21/01/2018 04:14:18 PM 452 Views
You've missed the point. The Shrike - 22/01/2018 01:53:59 AM 472 Views
No, I'm trying to show the qualitative difference between the two events. Tom - 22/01/2018 04:34:20 PM 385 Views
The letter J? *NM* Roland00 - 22/01/2018 05:19:14 PM 305 Views
No, J is a lot like the long s. Tom - 22/01/2018 07:23:01 PM 434 Views
Feels we are talking past each other. Roland00 - 22/01/2018 07:52:53 PM 478 Views
You're wrong. Tom - 23/01/2018 01:21:26 AM 522 Views
Agreed. Ligatures aren't letters. *NM* Ghavrel - 19/01/2018 06:13:43 AM 294 Views
Eh . . . the Ampersand is probably now considered a logogram rather than a ligature. The Shrike - 19/01/2018 01:27:21 PM 437 Views
ſ is just a variant. *NM* Tom - 19/01/2018 03:40:53 PM 331 Views
I enjoy this thread muchly...yet I will not participate besides saying Roland00 - 19/01/2018 10:46:40 PM 414 Views
You're using sublime too often; it's losing its luster The Shrike - 20/01/2018 12:15:10 AM 486 Views
Do I? (in regards to sublime) Roland00 - 20/01/2018 12:46:35 AM 405 Views
(in regards to sublime) damookster - 20/01/2018 03:18:04 PM 448 Views
Brilliant! *NM* Floffe - 20/01/2018 03:38:39 PM 259 Views
The Shrike - 20/01/2018 11:20:11 PM 453 Views
*NM* globug0822 - 23/01/2018 09:18:01 PM 270 Views
Is this payback for the irritating word, Umami? Roland00 - 24/01/2018 07:25:56 AM 351 Views
Upapi? *NM* damookster - 25/01/2018 08:41:14 PM 307 Views
Thank all gods everywhere they are gone. LiterateDog - 22/01/2018 12:23:34 PM 428 Views
Some other letters should go too. The Shrike - 22/01/2018 01:12:31 PM 503 Views
How would you replace the ch sound? Roland00 - 22/01/2018 04:15:04 PM 442 Views
I'm against removing letters that have done perfectly well for over 2500 years, thank you Tom - 22/01/2018 04:41:23 PM 418 Views
And I am not. We have had this debate before. To each his own. :-) The Shrike - 22/01/2018 05:22:36 PM 403 Views
Attic Greek was written in uncials that are easy to read Tom - 22/01/2018 07:24:51 PM 411 Views
I thought of removing C, as well. LiterateDog - 22/01/2018 06:16:20 PM 437 Views
The CH is a problem. The Shrike - 22/01/2018 06:34:47 PM 345 Views
And calling people you don't like "fu king unts"? *NM* Tom - 22/01/2018 07:25:29 PM 357 Views
Meanwhile if it were written as fuking kunts, no one would have any issues The Shrike - 22/01/2018 07:54:41 PM 511 Views
I have an issue, kunts looks too much like nuts or knuts Roland00 - 22/01/2018 08:09:52 PM 439 Views
Would you prefer a Knut? The Shrike - 22/01/2018 10:55:09 PM 404 Views
Yes I like my internet memes and thus I do not want to be confused by that word sometimes directed Roland00 - 23/01/2018 10:28:58 PM 382 Views
Yes, ask him The Shrike - 24/01/2018 01:32:08 AM 402 Views
Totes I will ask him about Tot *NM* Roland00 - 24/01/2018 09:49:45 PM 294 Views
Yes, about the meanings. Pronounced quite differently. Legolas - 25/01/2018 06:17:22 PM 501 Views
Scheisse. I did forget it. The Shrike - 26/01/2018 05:24:21 PM 415 Views
You mean Scheiße? *NM* Tom - 26/01/2018 06:49:26 PM 284 Views
No. I mean Scheisse. *NM* The Shrike - 26/01/2018 07:15:21 PM 309 Views
*NM* Tom - 26/01/2018 11:07:18 PM 350 Views
*NM* The Shrike - 28/01/2018 02:15:03 AM 266 Views
all those k's.... damookster - 22/01/2018 08:23:09 PM 388 Views
So . . . no Klondike bars or Kit Kats for you. The Shrike - 22/01/2018 10:55:53 PM 482 Views
But it would look "fuking" stupid Tom - 23/01/2018 01:30:15 AM 417 Views
All languages change The Shrike - 23/01/2018 01:40:18 AM 395 Views
They change, but resistance is not futile. Tom - 23/01/2018 02:10:17 AM 462 Views
Also, you're not talking about the language changing. You're talking about changing the language. Tom - 23/01/2018 02:16:39 AM 468 Views
I am being a realist who understands that spellings change. Letters get dropped. Language evolves. The Shrike - 23/01/2018 06:53:25 PM 508 Views
It is posts like this that remind me why you are my RAFO tree Roland00 - 23/01/2018 10:29:53 PM 392 Views
Nope sadly he did not *NM* Roland00 - 23/01/2018 10:30:09 PM 216 Views
What are you talking about here? The Shrike - 24/01/2018 12:21:55 PM 408 Views
I am talking about Logograms Roland00 - 24/01/2018 09:48:48 PM 406 Views
Evolution, not revolution Tom - 23/01/2018 10:54:37 PM 539 Views
Should change occur in one's lifetime or only seen through a generational prism? *NM* Roland00 - 23/01/2018 11:07:47 PM 276 Views
I guess it depends on how long one's life is. Tom - 23/01/2018 11:39:40 PM 410 Views
It's also one of the reasons I am against the 1918 spelling reforms in Russia. Tom - 23/01/2018 02:06:34 AM 515 Views
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