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Typical nonsense Cannoli Send a noteboard - 13/06/2018 11:12:19 PM


“WE HAD a really fantastic meeting. A lot of progress. Really, very positive, I think better than anybody could have expected, top of the line, really good.” So said Donald Trump after his first meeting with Kim Jong Un, North Korea’s blood-drenched dictator, in Singapore on June 12th. Alas, a short while later North-Korea watchers realised that, as so often with Mr Trump, the rhetoric didn’t quite match the reality.

It's not rhetoric, it's salesmanship or geniality. He's talking like a regular person does to indicate things went well, almost as if he thinks communicating with the normal people who elected him should be more of a priority than using the precise intra-Beltway jargon to delineate his administration's position in terms easy for a universally hostile media & insider community to understand. That's how people talk after they had a dinner they liked at a new restaurant or when they come out of a meeting with a contractor with a hopeful outlook, and the CNN & Economist people don't like it because their job security rests on a very limited number of people understanding what goes on and what politicians mean with certain word choices.
The most substantial thing to come out of the summit may well have been the dark chocolate tart served at the “working lunch” which Mr Trump and Mr Kim held with their delegations after meeting face to face.
So, basically, just like any other summit ever, where the President managed to avoid handing over vital US interests.
The two men signed a declaration at the end of their pow-wow resolving “to build a lasting and stable peace regime on the Korean Peninsula”.
How is this news? This statement could have been written before the summit in the expectation that something almost exactly like it would have been said. Who's ever going to come home complaining that they failed in negotiations? Offhand, Adolf Hitler is the only one I've ever heard of owning that kind of honesty, though that might only have been to his inner circle.
Mr Trump declared that he would provide “security guarantees” to North Korea; in return Mr Kim gave his “firm and unwavering commitment” to complete denuclearisation of the Korean peninsula.

Isn't that what everyone wanted? Isn't that the sole point of interest in North Korea, that they have nukes? Isn't that the best possible outcome of this summit, short of an absurd fantasy, like Kim personally handing over the keys to a truck with their entire nuclear arsenal aboard?

Me, I don't really care about North Korea having nukes, since it was okay for the USSR & China to have them, for India and Pakistan to have them and even France & Israel, as well as a country that tried harder than any other to wipe the USA off the map, and the only European country ever to actually invade us. I say, give 'em to Iran AND Saudi Arabia and let THEM have to be the grown-ups in the Middle East.


The two leaders also said they would hold further meetings at various levels “at the earliest possible date” to flesh out the declaration.

Again, news? What else were they going to say "We're utterly giving up on this?" The last summit where the Western leader came home claiming to accomplish everything they wanted in one shot was Munich.
If anything the document is even woollier than the statement signed by Mr Kim and Moon Jae-in, South Korea’s president, after their first meeting on April 27th, during which the two Korean leaders committed themselves to achieving peace on the Korean peninsula. There is nothing in the latest screed that is specific enough to be enforceable.

Given the individuals involved, why does the article imply more than this should have been expected? What president has ever come back with more than this from a first ever summit with a hostile power?
The hard work of turning rhetoric into substance will be left to others.
That's how EVERYTHING the president does works. Ever hear of Obamacare? Are we now blaming Barack Obama for being a shit website programmer?
The president said Mike Pompeo, the secretary of state, will meet North Korean officials next week to get this process into motion.

So the guy who was hired to be the top foreign policy official in the US is going to handle a high level foreign policy negotiation? Good heavens, does Trump have the SLIGHTEST clue how to run a country?!
But either leader can easily derail the détente should he lose interest in it.

Making this different from ANY other peace negotiation in the history of ever, how?
Negotiations with North Korea over its nuclear programme have always broken down in the past. There is no guarantee, in short, of any progress at all.

As I said, par for the course. What the article seems to be saying is that Trump is to be implicitly criticized for positive pleasantries without substance, AND for NOT offering substantial but false specific promises. They wanted him to come home with very sober & conventional expressions of success and guarantees of substantial action which would never be carried out, which they seem to be saying is the best anyone before this has ever managed.
Mr Kim will be thrilled. He has now implicitly been recognised as an equal by a sitting American president, something both his father and grandfather wanted but never achieved.

"Courtesy costs nothing" - Rand al'Thor. If we can toss that bone to the kleptocrats and corporate or criminal puppets who run most countries with whom the US has media-approved dealings, why not someone who managed to get his country up to nuclear power status against the express wishes of US foreign policy think tanks? As with Putin, you might not like him, but he's actually accomplished something.
As he and Mr Trump shook hands, North Korean flags were flying next to America’s behind them.

As you would expect in such a setting.
Mr Trump said it was an “honour”
I doubt he spelled it like that.
to be sitting down with the North Korean despot.

At least he didn't bow. That's called being polite. If the article is to be believed it is probably something that made Kim very happy, and costs Trump and the country nothing. It certainly isn't an image like the US President bowing to a monarch, which has far more propaganda value.
Mr Kim’s observation as they walked down the corridor for their first one-on-one meeting, that many people would think they were in a fantasy “from a science-fiction movie”, rang true.

But isn't breaking out of the expected mold what Trump ran on, that he could make deals and get things done that the typical captured-by-the-system insider wouldn't dream of doing? If the article agrees with Kim's comment, then they have no business holding Trump to account for not bringing home a better deal. The implication here is that just getting the meeting to happen is sufficiently impressive in its own right.


Mr Kim clearly believes this will help legitimise his rule at home.

Oh, damn! Trump just cut the legs out of the strong, vibrant and internationally connected North Korean resistance! We hear all the rhetoric and condemnations comparing North Korea to a brain washed ant colony, but we expect Trump to treat the population like an informed western democracy?

And if this is a real thing, where was all the indignation on the part of the intellectual elites and progressives when President after President did the exact same thing with far worse tyrants and despots, like Mao & Stalin and their successors? All the conservatives who complained about the actual resistance, like Hong Kong, Taiwan or Solidarity getting undercut by the legitimization of their dictatorial enemies by liberal or faux conservative Presidents, received condescension and dismissal from such publications & experts as this, who applauded equally insubstantial summits as progress and appeasers of communist dictators as mature.

What seems far more likely to me is that Kim wanted to sit down with Trump for ego reasons, rather than practical domestic ones. The man is known to be a celebrity-phile, and Trump has the widest Q-rating of any president in a long time. He was probably more than willing to have his pussy grabbed.


On the morning of the summit Rodong Sinmun, the North’s official newspaper, carried an enormous spread about an evening jaunt that Mr Kim took around Singapore the night before. Crowds of people had thronged around the entrance of the posh mall outside the Marina Bay Sands hotel to catch a glimpse of the North’s dictator. Even though this was only his third trip beyond the Korean peninsula since taking over from his father in 2011 (the other two being visits to China in March and May of this year), Mr Kim seemed perfectly at ease. He smiled and posed for selfies against the glittering Singapore skyline (residents had been told to leave their lights on to maximise the effect). The accompanying article said that Mr Kim would take home much “knowledge and experience” of Singapore’s development from his tour.

Moon Jae-in, South Korea’s president, did not get to travel to Singapore to parade with Mr Trump and Mr Kim, as he had apparently hoped. Still, he will be happy that his efforts to bring the pair together paid off: his office released a crop of pictures of him beaming as he watched footage of Mr Trump and Mr Kim shaking hands. China, too, will be delighted that America has been drawn into a protracted negotiation with North Korea—something that reduces the chance of war without diminishing China’s clout in the region.

Oh no! Good AND bad Asians like this! How will we ever decide what to think about it.
For America’s national interest, however, the summit was a missed opportunity. It was something the North Koreans wanted badly, but Mr Trump seems to have got little in exchange.

There's not a hell of a lot North Korea could give us. About all we want or need from them is not to shoot nuclear missiles at us. If Kim comes away feeling puffed up and flattered by the US President, isn't that outcome more likely? The meeting and flattery don't cost us anything. It's like that stupid episode of The Crown where they seem to think that by lowering herself to touch a Negro, QE2 achieved a major diplomatic triumph for her country. The same sort of people who were appalled or indignant that she danced formally with a African head of state are the exact same sort of idiot who is all het up and bothered at seeing the US flag flying alongside that of North Korea. If Trump can win any sort of practical concession from Kim for mere courtesies and symbolism, that's a huge profit.
At a press conference after the signing ceremony, he went further than the document had, announcing that he would halt all joint military exercises with South Korea while talks were ongoing (something Mr Kim wanted badly). This was a huge concession, though Mr Trump apparently did not see it that way. It might save America money, he suggested: flying bombers to South Korea from the American airbase on Guam was “very expensive”, he said. One day, he went on, he would like to bring American troops home from the peninsula.

There are a lot of people who want that. Why are American troops necessary to defend a much larger & wealthier country from a smaller & poorer? South Korea has twice the population & like 50 times the economy of the North. Let them defend their border and foot the bill.
He even borrowed the North’s language when he said that military drills were “provocative” at a time when diplomatic efforts were under way.

According to the left, offense is determined by the reaction of the offended party, NOT the intentions of the acting party. If a black person claims to be offended by what he perceives to be a racist connotation to something Trump says, the same media would be all over Trump's responsibility to make it right, regardless of any lack of proof of racial intent on his part. By this same standard, is provocation not something that is determined by the one who feels threatened?
Approaching a black man while wearing a police uniform is sufficiently provocative to justify a violent response, according to all non-Fox media. Using North Korea's terminology is the only right thing to do, by their measures.
Cannoli
“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” GK Chesteron
Inde muagdhe Aes Sedai misain ye!
Deus Vult!
*MySmiley*
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So. Trump and the little rocket man. - 13/06/2018 10:09:45 PM 860 Views
Typical nonsense - 13/06/2018 11:12:19 PM 484 Views
Wow, I get line by line commentary... nice. - 14/06/2018 12:22:12 AM 390 Views
Terrifying if Trump's emotive language is genuine - 13/06/2018 11:27:37 PM 546 Views
Have you ever worked with someone... - 14/06/2018 05:03:19 PM 422 Views
Re: Have you ever worked with someone... - 15/06/2018 09:14:50 PM 515 Views
So less on the article... - 14/06/2018 05:01:26 PM 416 Views
As I said to Cannoli - it's not about what it costs the US, but about what it's worth to North Korea - 14/06/2018 07:26:43 PM 437 Views
Trump doesn't care what Kim and North Korea pretend... - 14/06/2018 07:48:26 PM 396 Views
It certainly seems that way. - 14/06/2018 11:14:58 PM 416 Views
The conservative never-Trumpers hate him as much, if not more, than the liberals. - 14/06/2018 11:36:46 PM 396 Views
As they should. - 15/06/2018 12:02:40 AM 419 Views
What real worlkd gains does Norht Korea get? - 14/06/2018 08:40:32 PM 404 Views
So let them think it... - 14/06/2018 10:21:46 PM 438 Views
Funny how it went from Trump is going to start WWIII to Trump caved - 14/06/2018 07:21:44 PM 458 Views
Um, yes. Trump radically changed his position, so the media descriptions changed too? - 14/06/2018 07:40:37 PM 409 Views
The problem is the media posistion is always the same, Trump is wrong. - 14/06/2018 08:30:38 PM 391 Views
That would be more convincing if you said it in a case where he was right. - 14/06/2018 09:17:43 PM 401 Views
I don't agree... - 14/06/2018 09:37:23 PM 403 Views
I agree with this. - 14/06/2018 10:08:27 PM 440 Views
They're not contradictory - just a bit more subtle than having two binary options. - 14/06/2018 11:01:39 PM 534 Views
Well - 15/06/2018 12:03:41 AM 419 Views
Here you are being too optimistic. Sadly for the US and the world. - 15/06/2018 05:55:14 PM 413 Views
I'm *kinda* with you? - 20/06/2018 04:20:46 PM 427 Views
Ratings are creeping up because of outrage fatigue ? That makes no sense. - 20/06/2018 09:02:17 AM 425 Views
Sure it does. - 22/06/2018 10:02:39 PM 430 Views
It's a start, albeit a very weak start. - 15/06/2018 05:49:27 PM 393 Views
Wouldn't that be ironic? - 15/06/2018 06:03:37 PM 433 Views
Nothing here *NM* - 15/06/2018 09:10:51 PM 266 Views

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