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It is a complex problem. Roland00 Send a noteboard - 10/01/2019 11:44:47 PM

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Democrats claim to be in favor of increased border security and have voted for and continue to propose a combination of more fences (ah, fence = good, wall = bad), hiring more Border patrol agents, and increased use of technological solutions. In an October 2018 bill they were willing to spend 1.6 billion on this solution. This is also a lot of money and has no guarantee of working.

Yes?!? I am trying to see your point. (Yes I know you made your point in the next sentence, but "pause with me."

Fixing the real problem will not occur without a fundamental rewrite of everything. It is just blood transfusion after blood transfusion and then getting angry at the blood transfusions costing money. An E-Verify system is the bare minimum "main plank" of fixing the problem but even if you get all the main planks correct that still only fixes 80% of the problems and the problem still exist until you do everything.

Aka this is a "How Complex Systems Fail" 18 rules by Richard I. Cook, MD at the University of Chicago on this subject matter

https://web.mit.edu/2.75/resources/random/How%20Complex%20Systems%20Fail.pdf

Notice rule #7 the "blame game" makes the problem worse for it puts into a form of attention where we think in singular root causes instead of "systematic" complex form of cognition. Aka this is Type 1 vs Type 2 from Thinking Fast and Slow ( Daniel Kahneman and Amos Tversky, Prospect Theory domain of Behavioral Economics.)

System 1: Fast, automatic, frequent, emotional, stereotypic, unconscious.
System 2: Slow, effortful, infrequent, logical, calculating, conscious.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking,_Fast_and_Slow

Priming can be bad some of the time, Priming also known as the blame game shifts our attention into System 1 some of the time and this can be very bad when System 1 can't fix a problem but System 2 can.


What's my point? If Trump wanted open borders, the Democrats would be in favor of a wall.

Yes. This is the problem of Democracy, but even more so the problem of American Democracy with so many veto points controlled by multiple stake holders. It often means certain types of problems rarely get fixed if you can turn the problem into the blame game.

Certain types of problems are bad fits for both governments and businesses to fix. Exponential curves are like this. For at part of the curve there is small or little growth, and suddenly there is a huge surge (also known as a tipping point.)

Thankfully immigration is not one of these exponential curve type of realities. But it is a thing that is very scary to people for it "FEELS" like one of those very scary exponential curve type of realities. Climate change is actually far worse (and a dozen of other things) for it is one of those things that it is slow continuous growth until it becomes unavoidable.

Health care spending is another such thing but it is a problem for different reasons for we can actually slow down and stop health care spending, we can run out of money and refuse to pay more to hospitals, doctors and dozens of other interested parties in what is now 18% of GDP, in 2000 this was 13%. The problem is that change of 5% crowded out other things that are very important and we are preventing other things to grow due to lack of resources. For comparison the 2nd highest OCED spender on health care is Switzerland is 12% of GDP, and most of the OCED is in the 6 to 12% range with a couple countries even lower than 6%

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What I am saying here is this is a problem, and it is a fixable problem. But in my opinion it is not even in the top 5 or top 10 problems facing the US. That said feel free to disagree with me Mookie

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Trump Tonight - National Address on Immigration and the Wall - 08/01/2019 07:14:06 PM 591 Views
But - If you build it, they will come. Seems counterproductive then, no? - 08/01/2019 07:41:42 PM 311 Views
Very reasonable compromise..... - 09/01/2019 12:19:00 AM 330 Views
*Scratches head*... this is reasonable? - 09/01/2019 06:35:28 AM 301 Views
Illegal entry is a misdemeanor crime. So yes, it is a crime. - 09/01/2019 02:03:45 PM 317 Views
Does that apply to children? - 09/01/2019 07:21:41 PM 302 Views
Not really - 09/01/2019 09:31:42 PM 275 Views
They, and their parents, would have been deported. - 10/01/2019 12:55:17 AM 288 Views
People forget Obama earned the sobriquet, The Deporter in Chief. *NM* - 10/01/2019 01:12:30 AM 139 Views
Dude deported millions. But the media didn't act impartially and report on it. - 10/01/2019 04:09:58 PM 272 Views
Quotes from prominent Democrats on illegal immigration - 10/01/2019 08:15:05 PM 281 Views
"Mens rea"+"Minor"="No Crime Committed" on the part of the minor. - 09/01/2019 09:22:01 PM 274 Views
But any way you look at it.... - 09/01/2019 10:33:58 PM 289 Views
And actually, can I toss this into the ring.... - 10/01/2019 07:10:12 PM 259 Views
Different concepts - 10/01/2019 08:03:09 PM 272 Views
This focus on what to do about illegals already here is a tangent and not the point. - 10/01/2019 08:24:45 PM 267 Views
The wall will not solve the problem of the people already here, nor will it prevent - 10/01/2019 08:59:14 PM 282 Views
as I already stated in my reply to Greg... - 10/01/2019 09:14:32 PM 262 Views
Exactly! - 10/01/2019 10:23:27 PM 278 Views
This is simultaneously a Troll comment and an Earnest one. - 11/01/2019 01:29:28 AM 286 Views
And what you just said is hyperbole - 11/01/2019 06:01:23 PM 281 Views
It is a complex problem. - 10/01/2019 11:44:47 PM 260 Views
Just putting this out there.... - 10/01/2019 11:53:36 PM 283 Views
I absolutely agree with you that there are many far more significant issues - 11/01/2019 02:41:32 AM 280 Views
Walks over to Mookie's lawn with an unopened bottle of Titos in his right hand. - 11/01/2019 05:45:28 PM 260 Views
I would like that. - 11/01/2019 06:07:32 PM 263 Views
As it should be - 11/01/2019 07:13:49 PM 262 Views
They may not be the same... - 10/01/2019 10:28:46 PM 261 Views
To legal outsiders it looks like a distinction without a difference - 10/01/2019 10:56:43 PM 243 Views
I'm glad you recognized it. - 10/01/2019 11:12:24 PM 273 Views
Are we under the belief... - 09/01/2019 05:56:57 PM 273 Views
Not currently... - 09/01/2019 07:23:43 PM 266 Views
So then no. - 09/01/2019 10:30:49 PM 267 Views
I didn't watch it... - 09/01/2019 04:41:23 PM 305 Views

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