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There's a lot of double standards involved, aren't there? Legolas Send a noteboard - 11/12/2023 07:02:06 PM

Like, oh say:

  • Defending the Palestinians' right to resist occupation is apparently anti-semitism, but when Donald Trump or Viktor Orban make actual anti-semitic remarks, it's all perfectly fine.
  • The Squad is evil, but when Thomas Massie (I don't agree with him on most things, but at least he has a spine, unlike the vast majority of Republicans in the House) makes surprisingly similar remarks and votes together with the Squad against the Republican resolution, somehow no Republican knows anything or will say anything about his vote or his comments.
  • Elise Stefanik, best known as the spineless loser who gave up any principles she once might have had to become a Trump bootlicker, somehow gets to claim the moral high ground and attack other people for not being principled enough, without being laughed out of the room.
  • Using the word 'genocide' in reference to what Israel is doing in the Gaza Strip is a terrible abuse of the word which cheapens it, but any campaign in defense of Palestinian rights that shows the slightest tolerance for them using violent means should be described as 'calling for genocide against Israel', ideally in at least every other sentence.


But yes, certainly, there are also double standards on the other side - it's absolutely true that many American and European pro-Palestinian activists hold the Israeli government to higher standards than almost any other government. The reasons behind that are a tad more complicated than just 'oh, it's because they're anti-semitic', but they're problematic nonetheless. Then there's the obscene hypocrisy of the governments of Iran, China, Russia, etc. who somehow seem to think they get to give anyone any lessons on human rights.

In the big picture on a global level, though, the most important double standards of all are those of Western governments and politicians, in the US but also in Europe, as perceived by most of the rest of the world. How restrained and measured their criticisms of Israel for the Gaza campaign are, compared to how they would treat any other country in Asia, Africa or Latin-America doing the same thing. And yeah, we could ask those people, well why aren't you complaining about your governments doing business with China or Russia then - but the point is, the US and Europe are supposed to be morally better than China or Russia, are supposed to be defending human rights everywhere, are supposed to be judged to a higher standard.

View original postIt is fine to malign, abuse and denigrate “oppressors” and forbidden to do so against the “oppressed.”

I do think you're right on this - while I no doubt have some more sympathy for the thinking behind that position than you do, I certainly have to agree it has led to a lot of bizarre and reprehensible results.
View original postThis is the binary world view of Marxist critical theory and is central to the Progressive DEI movement. Misgendering a trans person is verbal violence and grounds for expulsion. They are the oppressed class while cisgender persons are the oppressors. But calling for the genocide of Israeli Jews is merely supporting the oppressed Palestinians against the Jewish oppressor, and is therefore not only fine but laudable.

As I indicated above, this would be more convincing if Stefanik and her ilk hadn't just done their best to completely hollow out the meaning of the phrase 'calling for genocide against Israel/Israeli Jews'. But yes, it is true, sadly, that some of the activists in question are indeed so radicalized that they did praise Hamas' attacks, and many more of them use the 'from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free' line without much caring what is to become of the Israeli Jews in that scenario (though, remember, Tom said ethnic cleansing is not genocide, unless of course his definition depends on which people is being ethnically cleansed).

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The false narrative of the double standard - 09/12/2023 02:33:25 PM 382 Views
ok *NM* - 09/12/2023 07:27:01 PM 37 Views
Is this a good summary, NYT? - 10/12/2023 01:20:47 AM 98 Views
It's as good as any. - 10/12/2023 04:38:59 PM 78 Views
I noticed the OP was mostly opinion - 10/12/2023 05:02:11 PM 74 Views
They dug their own graves - 11/12/2023 12:24:16 AM 86 Views
Re: They dug their own graves - 11/12/2023 03:15:59 AM 75 Views
rhetorical question Mookie (it does not matter the answer) - 11/12/2023 03:45:11 AM 82 Views
I have not - 11/12/2023 02:49:55 PM 81 Views
Yeah that is why I asked - 11/12/2023 04:24:40 PM 72 Views
There's a lot of double standards involved, aren't there? - 11/12/2023 07:02:06 PM 92 Views
We could go on and on with this - 11/12/2023 08:58:28 PM 79 Views
that has NOT been my experience - 11/12/2023 09:18:43 PM 80 Views
Yep, I know. - 12/12/2023 06:18:49 PM 82 Views
Re: Yep, I know. - 12/12/2023 08:04:57 PM 74 Views
Re: Yep, I know. - 14/12/2023 01:33:53 PM 57 Views
Where do you get your stats ? - 14/12/2023 07:09:02 AM 78 Views
the Hamas Ministry of Stats is likely an under-count - 14/12/2023 12:57:46 PM 68 Views
Given the nature of Hamas, the numbers are likely an overcount - 14/12/2023 01:16:00 PM 72 Views
whatever - 14/12/2023 02:50:53 PM 73 Views
Given the choice between believing a Democracy and an Autocratic Terrorist Gov - 14/12/2023 04:01:54 PM 72 Views
Chora I believe both are capable of lying - 14/12/2023 04:16:14 PM 75 Views
To quote you, gurlfriend, "whatever". - 14/12/2023 04:19:10 PM 67 Views
Obviously, anyone is capable of lying. - 14/12/2023 04:30:29 PM 69 Views
the names that Hamas was releasing in October - 14/12/2023 04:49:06 PM 75 Views
What stats are you contesting, exactly? - 14/12/2023 02:12:18 PM 66 Views
Re: What stats are you contesting, exactly? - 17/12/2023 02:34:34 PM 68 Views
Yeah, I'm still confused what you're trying to claim about the numbers - 17/12/2023 10:51:00 PM 69 Views
Out of curiosity, what do you think the best way forward is? - 18/12/2023 03:52:34 AM 79 Views
I'm not sure your view of me on this is that accurate. - 20/12/2023 08:06:23 PM 62 Views
Because no one in the Arab world wants the "Palestinians" - 14/12/2023 01:18:31 PM 66 Views
GDP per capita in Palestine is almost exactly equal to Egypt - 14/12/2023 05:36:55 PM 67 Views
There's always Antarctica - 16/12/2023 03:22:01 AM 64 Views
From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free - 13/12/2023 03:01:21 PM 73 Views
The idea is free from foreign oppression - internal freedom is, indeed, another story. - 14/12/2023 02:33:21 PM 68 Views
It means free of Jews - 17/12/2023 02:41:09 PM 65 Views
Re: From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free - 14/12/2023 03:32:17 PM 68 Views
Is the point to imply that 'pre-1948' meant no Israeli state at all? - 14/12/2023 03:56:59 PM 64 Views
Exactly - 14/12/2023 04:28:01 PM 73 Views
Those 3 Presidents are Bureaucratic Scum. - 14/12/2023 01:21:56 PM 74 Views
So Claudine Gay, Harvard Pres resigns - 02/01/2024 05:55:09 PM 55 Views
Re: So Claudine Gay, Harvard Pres resigns - 03/01/2024 04:38:14 PM 49 Views
Hey that’s not fair! - 03/01/2024 10:51:43 PM 57 Views

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