After reading through all of the defenses and thinking things over a bit, I've come to the same conclusion that I originally had. I really, really don't like seeing no-lynch as a serious suggestion.
Not liking it as a serious suggestion doesn't make its suggester a scummer, and under the circumstances, posting slump and how I'd proposed it during the previous posting slump, its a bit of a jump to assume I cheerfully wanted a no lynch to go down or something.
Is it? As you say, it's the second day in a row that you suggested one, and you followed the same formula both times. You made an argument against someone and when the town didn't follow suit you suggested no-lynch as an alternative. Yesterday everyone went along with your earlier plan and lynched White Flame. Maybe today you thought that they really would go with the no-lynch?
As F-T said, lynching is the only power that townies have as a group, and it's one of the very foundations of the game. Barring an extremely good vigilante, if we don't lynch, we won't win. If we don't have any evidence or any good targets, we should either dig deeper and try harder to find something, or we should lynch someone at random.
How about digging deeper, thus far no player besides myself had done any digging at all, and when I threw my shovel done and said 'seriously, help me dig or forget this new well' people decided to pick me up throw me down the well... without doing any digging on me either. All that's proven thus far is that you guys wanted a random lynch.
We just want a lynch. Obviously we'd prefer a well-reasoned one with a high probability of catching scum, but random lynch is better than no-lynch.
I've seen your arguments against random lynches, Isaac, and I must disagree with your conclusion. A random lynch is better than no lynch. It's true, as you say, that there is no skill or strategy involved if the lynch is truly random, but at least by trusting in pure dumb luck we still have a chance to win. If we vote to no-lynch, we're giving up. We'd be giving up at least on the day, and if we did it more often we'd be giving up on the game.
It does give a chance to 'win', its just a Pyrrhic Victory, the same as offering to flip a coin. It means nothing, in my opinion a no lynch is little better, but its a day not a game, because its trading more night actions for a NK. I don't like either option but no one was doing anything.
Except that in your case, it would become an empty victory either way. If you're telling the truth about your role (and if you're not, we'd have to lynch you for that too) then you don't have any night actions. You're trading your own ability to act during the day to count on someone else's ability to accomplish something productive at night. We can all probably be certain by now that we are in a fairly heavily roled game, but there's still no guarantee that the people with those roles will make the right choices. We could very well end up in exactly the same place tomorrow, except that the Skrull will have gotten a free kill out of it. I don't know about you, but I would never even consider making that sacrifice if I didn't have some amazing night powers. I probably wouldn't even consider it then.
So there we have it. Even if you are a hero, trying for a no-lynch is a scummy thing to do. I think you should be lynched on principle, just for that.
So even though you realize its not an indicator I'm scum, suggesting it, even when it was obviously designed to prod people to action to avoid it effectively happening by deadline or double modkill, is cause to kill me.
If it was indeed just a ploy to get people talking, then I would understand and even applaud the effort. If that was your intention though, it was not as obvious as you seem to think.
Besides, there is clear precedent for lynching people who demonstrate anti-town behavior even if they are not prob-scum.
And I think you will be, unless you can put forth a strong argument against someone else.
I suspect I will be able to do that. First, answer me too questions
Good, I'll look forward to seeing what you have. Meanwhile, I think that I will keep my vote where it is for now.
Do you think I thought we would vote for a no lynch? (I was surprised even one person voted for it but he's new)
It's possible. As I said, your suggestion followed the same basic formula as Day 1's, except that this time you actually voted for it. Maybe after lynching a townie yesterday you really did believe you could get a no-lynch today.
And if no, what would my motives be, as scum or town, for doing it? I mean I assume nobody's decided I suddenly do stuff for no reason. What motive would I have as a scummer who had little to no reason to think a no lynch would happen and would draw suspicion, to do such a thing?
As a townie, I suppose it could just be that you like trying new things. In the Pirates vs Ninjas game you suggested the encrypted mass roleclaim even though you admitted that you didn't think it would happen and even though early mass roleclaims are a bit scummy in their own rights. That one worked out very well for the town. As a townie, it is possible that you really were trying to help, although I would say that this particular tactic was misguided at best.
As scum, there are many reasons why you might employ such a strategy. You are, after all, the player who once won a game for the mafia by not using your night kill. It's hard to say what plans or plots you could be using.
It's also hard to say what additional powers and effects could be in play, since we know that this is a heavily roled game. Maybe you have some special Skrull power that gives you an extra nightkill if the town doesn't lynch someone? Maybe if the Negative Zone transporter thingy isn't on cooldown like it was yesterday you could throw someone into it?
There are just too many unknown variables at this time to be certain.
If you have no answer, then the only one which fits is that I did it to get people talking again, and that is pro-town and pro-game and I point out, was very successful, if not quite in the fashion I expected.
This is still possible, and it is the only scenario that looks good for you. I do want to see what else you can come up with, but right now I still think you're our best option.
RAFO Mafia 19: Superlative Crisis! ISSUE TWO: BLACK MAGIC- WHOA, MAN!
- 03/11/2010 04:59:59 AM
2800 Views
I see two avenues to discuss here
- 03/11/2010 11:41:14 AM
1029 Views
I was thinking about number 1.
- 03/11/2010 10:00:57 PM
1045 Views
Regarding 2, and let me suggets a 3
- 04/11/2010 02:30:41 AM
1093 Views
I, personally, agree with Isaac so here goes.
- 04/11/2010 11:33:07 PM
1011 Views
O.......K..........
- 05/11/2010 11:43:14 PM
982 Views
Did Fist use his power last Night?
- 06/11/2010 03:41:05 AM
1032 Views
It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
- 06/11/2010 04:53:19 AM
1030 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
- 06/11/2010 05:30:00 PM
1012 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
- 06/11/2010 07:15:11 PM
1049 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
- 07/11/2010 08:18:16 AM
1098 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
- 07/11/2010 03:38:37 PM
1125 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
- 07/11/2010 06:42:10 PM
1087 Views
Huh, well Fox straight up told us his Mason group was a 3rd Fraction on Night 1
- 11/11/2010 12:55:50 AM
1045 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
- 07/11/2010 06:16:29 PM
1121 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
- 07/11/2010 07:16:20 PM
1048 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
- 07/11/2010 09:29:12 PM
1155 Views
I am about 95% sure that WF targeted me last Night.
- 11/11/2010 01:04:34 AM
1110 Views
Interesting.
- 11/11/2010 02:25:07 AM
1055 Views
It's certainly possible.
- 11/11/2010 02:39:00 AM
1059 Views
Now I'm curious
- 11/11/2010 03:33:46 AM
1111 Views
Presumably because I'm not trying to get her lynched.
- 11/11/2010 03:53:54 AM
1090 Views
Yeah, I'm going with that #3 there.
- 04/11/2010 05:41:04 AM
1113 Views
Re: Yeah, I'm going with that #3 there.
- 04/11/2010 04:18:17 PM
1181 Views
a scummer got caught on day one in the tower game
- 04/11/2010 06:42:15 PM
1093 Views
also there was that time someone said they saw a black light instead of white
- 04/11/2010 07:52:41 PM
1035 Views
That was Hobo in DK's crossover game. *NM*
- 04/11/2010 08:16:07 PM
576 Views
You know we could just forget about that. I wouldn't complain.
*NM*
- 05/11/2010 08:35:03 PM
630 Views
*NM*
- 05/11/2010 08:35:03 PM
630 Views
Hypocop? *NM*
- 03/11/2010 03:20:17 PM
635 Views
Hobo - Innocent + read this before you HC if you haven't already
- 04/11/2010 08:25:26 PM
1024 Views
So help me I will spoil the entirety of ToM, people! (not just yet, though)
- 10/11/2010 02:51:46 AM
981 Views
I'm pretty sure if you do, you'll be lynched. *NM*
- 10/11/2010 09:19:43 PM
580 Views
Vote: No Lynch
- 13/11/2010 12:24:43 AM
1055 Views
I am very much opposed to this idea
- 13/11/2010 02:04:27 PM
1009 Views
Then offer an alternative
- 13/11/2010 11:10:42 PM
1049 Views
Why is an inactive likely to be a townie?
- 14/11/2010 04:03:35 AM
965 Views
Re: Why is an inactive likely to be a townie?
- 14/11/2010 04:21:12 AM
1029 Views
I had no RBIRL because my computer died.
- 14/11/2010 06:52:56 AM
962 Views
Ah, I see you did unvote. Very well. I still got my eye on you. *NM*
- 14/11/2010 06:55:30 AM
525 Views
LOL - I guess this is also my informal defense
- 14/11/2010 08:52:56 AM
1017 Views
Saying it's not out-of-character to be scummy doesn't make you any less scummy.
- 14/11/2010 04:33:15 PM
1022 Views
Watch the difference between what he says and what he is accused of.
- 14/11/2010 07:08:08 PM
946 Views
After this whole argument I've had with FT...
- 13/11/2010 11:42:32 PM
991 Views
People who vote for totally random lynches don't deserve to win
- 14/11/2010 03:43:14 AM
984 Views
Re: People who vote for totally random lynches don't deserve to win
- 14/11/2010 02:23:04 PM
1156 Views
Vote: Isaac
- 13/11/2010 11:58:56 PM
1078 Views
Re: Vote: Isaac
- 14/11/2010 03:02:15 AM
1003 Views
Re: Vote: Isaac
- 14/11/2010 04:02:30 AM
1073 Views
What was scummy?
- 14/11/2010 04:10:12 AM
1098 Views
Re: What was scummy?
- 14/11/2010 05:41:44 AM
1021 Views
Extrmely thin
- 14/11/2010 06:05:32 AM
1172 Views
Actually...
- 14/11/2010 06:55:02 AM
1092 Views
Re: Actually...
- 14/11/2010 07:44:33 AM
1031 Views
Did you guys just blitz me?
- 14/11/2010 11:35:58 PM
1082 Views
- 14/11/2010 11:35:58 PM
1082 Views
Your not hammered yet are you?
- 14/11/2010 11:46:29 PM
994 Views
I think I might be, can never be sure what votes are worth in a heavy role game
- 14/11/2010 11:50:51 PM
1029 Views
I'm potentially alive on a technicality
- 15/11/2010 12:02:36 AM
906 Views
Why don't you go ahead and claim then?
- 15/11/2010 12:11:03 AM
1010 Views
Sure
- 15/11/2010 12:34:34 AM
991 Views
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
- 15/11/2010 02:13:23 AM
1096 Views
I think so.
- 15/11/2010 01:25:46 AM
970 Views
Also, I must confess...
- 15/11/2010 01:32:44 AM
990 Views
Re: Also, I must confess...
- 15/11/2010 01:58:26 AM
1109 Views
Yes, I would expect so.
- 15/11/2010 02:22:06 AM
933 Views
Re: Yes, I would expect so.
- 15/11/2010 02:35:49 AM
1059 Views
I'm unvoting only if the defence is really foolproof, since now no-one can hammer without instantly
- 15/11/2010 07:18:05 AM
1026 Views
EBWOP - The "only" in the title is rebundant, it was part of different title I abandoned. *NM*
- 15/11/2010 07:19:46 AM
616 Views
I guess the first title stands afterall I won't automatically unvote just because none should hammer
- 15/11/2010 08:19:00 AM
921 Views
I'll try to help Isaac out a bit here.
- 15/11/2010 01:11:11 PM
878 Views
Thanks, and a question too
- 15/11/2010 01:30:17 PM
947 Views
Well, I'll unvote if the third mason comes forward too. *NM*
- 15/11/2010 03:30:36 PM
591 Views
Jeez, when it rains, it pours
- 15/11/2010 10:34:54 PM
910 Views
OK Isaac
- 15/11/2010 11:14:45 PM
951 Views
My Defense Posts
- 16/11/2010 04:16:41 AM
950 Views
Defense A: The Fantastic Four
- 16/11/2010 04:31:11 AM
1010 Views
Defense B: The Numbers Game
- 16/11/2010 04:36:59 AM
1007 Views
"What motive would a scummer have"?
- 16/11/2010 05:56:04 PM
992 Views
Without any further questions though?
- 16/11/2010 11:51:42 PM
1066 Views
If you see an avalanche coming, you hop on board (NOT a metaphor).
- 17/11/2010 12:12:31 AM
972 Views
Defense C: The Intro Flavor
- 16/11/2010 04:41:31 AM
1110 Views
Eh ...
- 16/11/2010 10:00:21 PM
957 Views
Re: Eh ...
- 17/11/2010 02:33:27 AM
1006 Views
We'll take a look at that in turn, but first...
- 16/11/2010 07:01:22 AM
1048 Views
Re: We'll take a look at that in turn, but first...
- 16/11/2010 01:40:21 PM
968 Views
Yes, that was it.
- 16/11/2010 09:05:04 PM
966 Views
Re: Yes, that was it.
- 17/11/2010 02:55:58 AM
988 Views
Not at all.
- 17/11/2010 03:04:50 AM
995 Views
Well, that's a borderline lie
- 17/11/2010 04:29:47 AM
1060 Views
How do you figure?
- 17/11/2010 05:46:37 AM
958 Views
I'd say its pretty pertinent to my defense
- 17/11/2010 06:49:20 AM
950 Views
All right, fair enough.
- 17/11/2010 07:19:37 AM
1067 Views
Thanks for whakcing me before going to bed
- 17/11/2010 07:39:58 AM
1011 Views
- 17/11/2010 07:39:58 AM
1011 Views
By the way, I'd appreciate if no one had hammer till FT has a chance to reply and vice-versa
- 17/11/2010 07:46:18 AM
967 Views
I have evidence in favor of and yet against F-T's claim. Take it as you will.
- 17/11/2010 07:18:35 PM
1046 Views
Slight EBWOP
- 17/11/2010 07:20:58 PM
1051 Views
Re: Slight EBWOP
- 17/11/2010 07:24:34 PM
949 Views
Uh, that doesn't make a lot of sense
- 17/11/2010 07:22:59 PM
1032 Views
That's fair. Sanity can actually be called into question now.
- 17/11/2010 07:26:34 PM
969 Views
Re: That's fair. Sanity can actually be called into question now.
- 17/11/2010 08:01:20 PM
1036 Views
Actually that sounds a good plan
- 17/11/2010 08:06:50 PM
969 Views
Glad to hear you agree with yourself
- 17/11/2010 08:14:42 PM
1051 Views
- 17/11/2010 08:14:42 PM
1051 Views
Vote: Isaac
- 17/11/2010 12:45:26 AM
933 Views
Re: Vote: Isaac
- 17/11/2010 02:05:03 AM
1023 Views
Re: Vote: Isaac
- 17/11/2010 03:12:21 AM
1102 Views
:/ Wanna mention this before I forget. Little niggling that's been bugging me.
- 17/11/2010 03:03:27 AM
986 Views
Ah yes, I noticed that as well
- 17/11/2010 04:08:15 AM
973 Views
I just caught that
- 17/11/2010 04:53:16 AM
1094 Views
No, I don't mean Cop.
- 17/11/2010 05:29:36 AM
991 Views
Re: No, I don't mean Cop.
- 17/11/2010 05:34:46 AM
1006 Views
I trust him because of the way he's been acting.
- 17/11/2010 06:30:26 PM
1064 Views
Complete sidetrack.
- 17/11/2010 07:28:31 PM
1068 Views
Re: Complete sidetrack.
- 17/11/2010 07:33:51 PM
937 Views
I can't seem to find the post about that arrangement we had, incidentally.
- 17/11/2010 05:38:53 AM
906 Views
Re: I can't seem to find the post about that arrangement we had, incidentally.
- 17/11/2010 06:04:08 AM
924 Views
Re: I can't seem to find the post about that arrangement we had, incidentally.
- 17/11/2010 06:25:05 AM
1010 Views
Re: I can't seem to find the post about that arrangement we had, incidentally.
- 17/11/2010 06:50:04 AM
966 Views
In the interests of honesty, now would probably be a good time to mention ...
- 17/11/2010 09:22:14 PM
986 Views
What the balls?
- 17/11/2010 09:52:04 PM
1004 Views
I still only see one way for this day to end
- 18/11/2010 02:02:03 PM
964 Views
Re: I still only see one way for this day to end
- 18/11/2010 03:18:50 PM
938 Views
Its probably the blind mason loyalty thing, but I'm inclined to trust Isaac.
- 18/11/2010 05:16:28 PM
1146 Views
Re: Its probably the blind mason loyalty thing, but I'm inclined to trust Isaac.
- 18/11/2010 06:00:06 PM
955 Views
I'd also like to point out that we know nothing about you
- 18/11/2010 03:37:08 PM
944 Views
i don't know much about comics but
- 18/11/2010 05:45:10 PM
998 Views
Re: i don't know much about comics but
- 18/11/2010 05:49:54 PM
898 Views
They're also Marvel characters
- 18/11/2010 06:30:11 PM
1026 Views
LOL, duly noted
- 18/11/2010 06:48:08 PM
1024 Views
- 18/11/2010 06:48:08 PM
1024 Views
Beast is really surprisingly un-beastly.
- 18/11/2010 06:28:15 PM
1023 Views
Sure
- 18/11/2010 06:42:01 PM
998 Views
Alright, to hell with this. Let's test F-T's sanity. Vote: Isaac *NM*
- 21/11/2010 08:29:53 PM
592 Views
Ah, the frustration vote, normally my best friend
- 21/11/2010 09:58:18 PM
960 Views
- 21/11/2010 09:58:18 PM
960 Views
OK, here's a question for beet:
- 21/11/2010 10:37:08 PM
988 Views
You're not suggesting we lynch F-T instead of Isaac, are you?
- 21/11/2010 11:17:19 PM
969 Views
But we do get information
- 22/11/2010 12:17:20 AM
987 Views
<-- Btw, first time I got the hammer vote. My life is now complete. *NM*
- 22/11/2010 12:20:53 AM
587 Views
Well, congrats
*NM*
- 22/11/2010 12:32:34 AM
625 Views
*NM*
- 22/11/2010 12:32:34 AM
625 Views
Since this is a first for both of us...
- 22/11/2010 12:35:29 AM
968 Views
- 22/11/2010 12:35:29 AM
968 Views
When someone dies, you find out their role. "Psycho Cop" is a distinct role.
- 21/11/2010 11:22:50 PM
982 Views
Isaac wonders how he could be lynched without scum involvement...
- 22/11/2010 12:00:31 AM
936 Views
Re: Isaac wonders how he could be lynched without scum involvement...
- 22/11/2010 12:21:01 AM
1039 Views
Isaac has been lynched!
- 22/11/2010 03:10:01 AM
881 Views
I can't help but feel a silver bullet would have been appropriate
- 22/11/2010 04:11:13 AM
895 Views
- 22/11/2010 04:11:13 AM
895 Views
I find that astounding, considering the level of suspicion generally laid upon you *NM*
- 22/11/2010 04:16:04 AM
636 Views
I might just mount your head on my wall
.
- 22/11/2010 05:09:45 AM
1079 Views
.
- 22/11/2010 05:09:45 AM
1079 Views
I consider myself an integral part in this group.
- 22/11/2010 05:27:12 AM
1066 Views



