Also, you keep insisting that four investigative roles is too many and using that as proof that the SPLOG must be broken. In my game, the town had six investigators. Going back to your "proof" about the SPLOG though, why would you have any such information while your masons did not? Wouldn't the Thing be the least likely member of the Fantastic Four to know the details of Reed's experiments?
The Thing is the Head of Security for the Fan 4, so after Richards he be the most likely to know such a thing
Nice, an OMGUS vote. This, incidentally, is why I am now completely convinced of your guilt. Even discounting our differing opinions about no-lynches and the like, you are the one who came up positive and you are the one whose death will certify the sanity of our cop. My death would accomplish nothing.
Not an OMGUS vote - we've basically shown there must be at least one scummer voting for me no matter what, so if FT and Kronin are reasonably off the table, at least one of the remaining four must be a scummer, that's the truth everyone can see, from my perspective, as a townie, I know 1 is not enough, two becomes the absolute minimum and higher becomes even more likely, so 2/4 or more of those non-FT/Kron votes is scum. 50/50 is better lynch odds than me, the copping is untrustworthy, the 'no lynch' is demonstrabably less scummy than proposing to kill a basically confirmed townie, and we still have no reason to think I should have been bussed.
Evidence for lynches isn't about quality or quantity, it's about relativity. If I have slim evidence against you and no evidence against anyone else, you're most likely going to get my vote.
Well, at least you acknowledge the evidence is slim.
Right, so people without specific role-related information shouldn't be trying to catch scum?
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if you and ? were Skrull together. You were each masons in different groups. He joined you in voting for a no-lynch. You might say you "pushed on him pretty hard" but your case was actually pretty weak and never could have gone anywhere. It easily could have been designed to create separation between the two of you.
Originally my pressure on ? was used as part of the accusation on me, so now that that is shot down, it is proof he and I are both scum? Every accusation on me has a big 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' aspect, next people will acknowledge the no lynch really was primarily to shake the game back to life and get people talking, and that it is anti-town because a deadline or no lynch would have protected our investigators form revealing, or that I'm acting anti-town by having fought the lynch and forcing exposure. Clearly I should have warned the town that I had no plans and barring someone else presenting new evidence I couldn't think of anyway to move forward today that wouldn't cause more harm from info reveals. Oh wait, I did warn the town that most of the option I could think of to push forward for the day would probably be harmful. But that wouldn't make sense, I'm a scummer right? Just because I've never failed to lynch a townie on Day 2 as a scummer and joke all the time about how I view day 1 and 2 as free NKs? Nah, I definitely would prefer to waste a kill, of a townie, the regular outcome of Day 2 when I'm scum, along with all the info the day would produce.
Then there was his not-quite-vote... His post afterwards seemed to be one of indignation, but as you say, he never corrected it to make his vote count, although he could have easily done so. As ridiculous as it sounds, I could almost believe that you worked out the colon thing ahead of time.
My plans don't usually have large backfire elements to them, as viilains go I've read the Evil Overlord List, I do tend to prepare for unexpected oddball stuff but I don't gamble on things like that happening. "Hey ?, tomorrow I will suggest something that will cause a wave vote on me, make sure to jump right into that with a vote minus colon so that if I get there before the mod does I can object to it" doesn't appear to have a lot of upsides for the risk. My style would be more "Hey ?, if something liek this should happen, vote for me then unvote fairly quickly, saying its best to hear my defense."
And this gets back to the whole bussing scenario. IT just doesn't fit, you've been a scummer with me before, most of the players have, none of this fits my MO. If I were a scummer mason I'd specifically warn my allies to be careful about lynching me because my death would give the town two free innocent coppings, Hobo and Fox. My allies, if trying to establish themselves as votes on me would vote and unvote in these kind of circumstances, none would risk dropping the hammer for the bus.
I mean seriously, I think your scum so that's why I think you 'buy into this' and the investigators have reaosn but let's just go through this.
Theroetical Scummer "Thought Train"
Isaac and X are scum
Isaac gets voted on for suggesting no lynch
Isaac is a mason with two allies who will be effectively def-town if he dies.
Isaac is very unlikely to go down easy on a lynch
Isaac is typically the scummer's primary tactician
Here's a big one: FT will be confirmed townie as a definite non-busser as first vote, and is generally considered a massive threat in his own right, his chief rival, Isaac, will no longer be available to counter him because we killed him to prove FT was clean
So X says to him/herself, 'hey, let's bus Isaac, the evidence on him is very slim, he will certainly mount a defense, and his death would confirm three townies, all of whom are serious veteran players dating back to game 1-3' THat don't make a whole lot of sense, heck one of the reasons presented for offing me now that most of the original evidence has been beaten down is that my death will tell us something about the masons, both innocent if I'm guilty, nothing it all if I'm not. I think the bussing conundrum isn't really hitting as hard as it could be because I'm trying to avoid sounding arrogant but why on Earth would fellow Skrull want kill me off? Out of all the games, the scum have never won unless I was modding, and that just once. "Kill off our ace card and hand them two confirmed townie masons and FT on slim evidence" ain't exactly a probable strategy, and remember, 1 is the absolute minimum number of bussers, it still requires only 3 scum and every single townie besides Hobo and Fox to have been right there and willing to vote, when we typically have a fair nubmer of people off RBIRL or not around for the night, that number of votes just requires a bigger pool than the available townies wer elikely to make up. So odds would strongly favor 2 bussers, its pretty unlikely even one would have bussed under those cirucmstances, let alone 2?
Or we have a vastly more logical option. With our all roles the scum have extra edges, in numbers/and or ability. 4 with a single extra kill is highly probable. The lightning dash to vote on slim evidence wouldn't be an utter loss if they couldn't finish the game on night 2, and with 11 players, 4 scum, and most extra NKs these days usually not usable till night 2, an opportunity suddenly presents itself, say FT voting for me, presenting a decent case, well might as well give it a try right? Take out the huge threat in a way that makes FT - another huge threat - look bad, and that night try for a double kill, game over. It works pretty well even if the only have three or don't have an extra NK but they've got to be backing some massive firepower with all these roles.
So take for the moment that I'm town and look at this from my perspective.
I know scummers are voting for me
I know they have a lot of edges to counter-balance ours
I am a very logical target for attack, the town has never lost when I was one, ever
FT is a townie
The Scum are facing the two players considered most potent in terms of exposing scum and generating lynches, and one of them has just accused the other. They number four and/or have an extra kill - those three options are vastly more likely than just 3 scum. By taking me out, they have a shot to end the game right there, and if not, they go into the next day with FT to be blamed for my death, literally offering to die if I come up town if the thought hadn't already occurred to them. If they had 4 and no extra kill, they go into tomorrow 5-4, LyLo, if 3 and a extra kill, 5-3, also LyLo. Even if the were only three with no NK, they'd go into tomorrow nearly LyLo, with 9 players surviving and 3 scum and a decent lynch chance on FT and suspicion probably falling on surviving masons.
Now bussing seems real unlikely, but rushing sure does. I've listed off so many reasons why bussing doesn't plausibly work that I think it eclipses why rushing does. Isn't, logically, rushing far more likely than bussing under these circumstances?
If the town survives my lynch to get to tomorrow, they're gonna realize that the scummer pool is real tiny, so your efforts to accuse FT and ? seems a bit of a gamble to make sure that pool doesn't shrink to small, and even 3 with no extra kill you'd only need to get one townie lynched. We can never be sure about anyone, but FT is about as close to deftown as one can get, and the premade colon error theory is frankly ridiculous, I freely admit to being a schemer, but my schemes only include blatantly foreseeable disastrous consequences as the problem to be dealt with, I don't make them, why on Earth would I tell ? to put an error in his vote for me? I'd just have told him to vote for me and quickly unvote, same effect and it doesn't risk someone coming by to tell him to fix it or Beet ending the day before I could object or not deciding my way. I take this as another indicator your scum.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
RAFO Mafia 19: Superlative Crisis! ISSUE TWO: BLACK MAGIC- WHOA, MAN!
03/11/2010 04:59:59 AM
- 2542 Views
I see two avenues to discuss here
03/11/2010 11:41:14 AM
- 765 Views
I was thinking about number 1.
03/11/2010 10:00:57 PM
- 781 Views
Regarding 2, and let me suggets a 3
04/11/2010 02:30:41 AM
- 835 Views
I, personally, agree with Isaac so here goes.
04/11/2010 11:33:07 PM
- 759 Views
O.......K..........
05/11/2010 11:43:14 PM
- 736 Views
Did Fist use his power last Night?
06/11/2010 03:41:05 AM
- 773 Views
It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
06/11/2010 04:53:19 AM
- 758 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
06/11/2010 05:30:00 PM
- 744 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
06/11/2010 07:15:11 PM
- 799 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
07/11/2010 08:18:16 AM
- 848 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
07/11/2010 03:38:37 PM
- 801 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
07/11/2010 06:42:10 PM
- 835 Views
Huh, well Fox straight up told us his Mason group was a 3rd Fraction on Night 1
11/11/2010 12:55:50 AM
- 792 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
07/11/2010 06:16:29 PM
- 846 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
07/11/2010 07:16:20 PM
- 787 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
07/11/2010 09:29:12 PM
- 863 Views
I am about 95% sure that WF targeted me last Night.
11/11/2010 01:04:34 AM
- 753 Views
Interesting.
11/11/2010 02:25:07 AM
- 815 Views
It's certainly possible.
11/11/2010 02:39:00 AM
- 805 Views
Now I'm curious
11/11/2010 03:33:46 AM
- 841 Views
Presumably because I'm not trying to get her lynched.
11/11/2010 03:53:54 AM
- 848 Views
Yeah, I'm going with that #3 there.
04/11/2010 05:41:04 AM
- 838 Views
Re: Yeah, I'm going with that #3 there.
04/11/2010 04:18:17 PM
- 855 Views
a scummer got caught on day one in the tower game
04/11/2010 06:42:15 PM
- 822 Views
also there was that time someone said they saw a black light instead of white
04/11/2010 07:52:41 PM
- 820 Views
That was Hobo in DK's crossover game. *NM*
04/11/2010 08:16:07 PM
- 453 Views
You know we could just forget about that. I wouldn't complain. *NM*
05/11/2010 08:35:03 PM
- 493 Views
Hypocop? *NM*
03/11/2010 03:20:17 PM
- 498 Views
So help me I will spoil the entirety of ToM, people! (not just yet, though)
10/11/2010 02:51:46 AM
- 719 Views
I'm pretty sure if you do, you'll be lynched. *NM*
10/11/2010 09:19:43 PM
- 465 Views
Vote: No Lynch
13/11/2010 12:24:43 AM
- 819 Views
I am very much opposed to this idea
13/11/2010 02:04:27 PM
- 736 Views
Then offer an alternative
13/11/2010 11:10:42 PM
- 782 Views
Why is an inactive likely to be a townie?
14/11/2010 04:03:35 AM
- 717 Views
Re: Why is an inactive likely to be a townie?
14/11/2010 04:21:12 AM
- 814 Views
I had no RBIRL because my computer died.
14/11/2010 06:52:56 AM
- 703 Views
Ah, I see you did unvote. Very well. I still got my eye on you. *NM*
14/11/2010 06:55:30 AM
- 412 Views
LOL - I guess this is also my informal defense
14/11/2010 08:52:56 AM
- 785 Views
Saying it's not out-of-character to be scummy doesn't make you any less scummy.
14/11/2010 04:33:15 PM
- 817 Views
Watch the difference between what he says and what he is accused of.
14/11/2010 07:08:08 PM
- 678 Views
After this whole argument I've had with FT...
13/11/2010 11:42:32 PM
- 750 Views
People who vote for totally random lynches don't deserve to win
14/11/2010 03:43:14 AM
- 721 Views
Re: People who vote for totally random lynches don't deserve to win
14/11/2010 02:23:04 PM
- 893 Views
Vote: Isaac
13/11/2010 11:58:56 PM
- 837 Views
Re: Vote: Isaac
14/11/2010 03:02:15 AM
- 737 Views
Re: Vote: Isaac
14/11/2010 04:02:30 AM
- 816 Views
What was scummy?
14/11/2010 04:10:12 AM
- 852 Views
Re: What was scummy?
14/11/2010 05:41:44 AM
- 771 Views
Extrmely thin
14/11/2010 06:05:32 AM
- 923 Views
Actually...
14/11/2010 06:55:02 AM
- 826 Views
Re: Actually...
14/11/2010 07:44:33 AM
- 783 Views
Did you guys just blitz me?
14/11/2010 11:35:58 PM
- 814 Views
Your not hammered yet are you?
14/11/2010 11:46:29 PM
- 747 Views
I think I might be, can never be sure what votes are worth in a heavy role game
14/11/2010 11:50:51 PM
- 770 Views
I'm potentially alive on a technicality
15/11/2010 12:02:36 AM
- 669 Views
Why don't you go ahead and claim then?
15/11/2010 12:11:03 AM
- 755 Views
Sure
15/11/2010 12:34:34 AM
- 726 Views
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
15/11/2010 02:13:23 AM
- 833 Views
I think so.
15/11/2010 01:25:46 AM
- 735 Views
Also, I must confess...
15/11/2010 01:32:44 AM
- 750 Views
Re: Also, I must confess...
15/11/2010 01:58:26 AM
- 876 Views
Yes, I would expect so.
15/11/2010 02:22:06 AM
- 692 Views
Re: Yes, I would expect so.
15/11/2010 02:35:49 AM
- 794 Views
I'm unvoting only if the defence is really foolproof, since now no-one can hammer without instantly
15/11/2010 07:18:05 AM
- 766 Views
EBWOP - The "only" in the title is rebundant, it was part of different title I abandoned. *NM*
15/11/2010 07:19:46 AM
- 485 Views
I guess the first title stands afterall I won't automatically unvote just because none should hammer
15/11/2010 08:19:00 AM
- 682 Views
I'll try to help Isaac out a bit here.
15/11/2010 01:11:11 PM
- 643 Views
Thanks, and a question too
15/11/2010 01:30:17 PM
- 686 Views
Well, I'll unvote if the third mason comes forward too. *NM*
15/11/2010 03:30:36 PM
- 453 Views
Jeez, when it rains, it pours
15/11/2010 10:34:54 PM
- 655 Views
OK Isaac
15/11/2010 11:14:45 PM
- 707 Views
My Defense Posts
16/11/2010 04:16:41 AM
- 726 Views
Defense A: The Fantastic Four
16/11/2010 04:31:11 AM
- 747 Views
Defense B: The Numbers Game
16/11/2010 04:36:59 AM
- 750 Views
"What motive would a scummer have"?
16/11/2010 05:56:04 PM
- 723 Views
Without any further questions though?
16/11/2010 11:51:42 PM
- 779 Views
If you see an avalanche coming, you hop on board (NOT a metaphor).
17/11/2010 12:12:31 AM
- 717 Views
Defense C: The Intro Flavor
16/11/2010 04:41:31 AM
- 862 Views
Eh ...
16/11/2010 10:00:21 PM
- 703 Views
Re: Eh ...
17/11/2010 02:33:27 AM
- 773 Views
We'll take a look at that in turn, but first...
16/11/2010 07:01:22 AM
- 811 Views
Re: We'll take a look at that in turn, but first...
16/11/2010 01:40:21 PM
- 708 Views
Yes, that was it.
16/11/2010 09:05:04 PM
- 737 Views
Re: Yes, that was it.
17/11/2010 02:55:58 AM
- 753 Views
Not at all.
17/11/2010 03:04:50 AM
- 771 Views
Well, that's a borderline lie
17/11/2010 04:29:47 AM
- 814 Views
How do you figure?
17/11/2010 05:46:37 AM
- 716 Views
I'd say its pretty pertinent to my defense
17/11/2010 06:49:20 AM
- 706 Views
All right, fair enough.
17/11/2010 07:19:37 AM
- 827 Views
Thanks for whakcing me before going to bed
17/11/2010 07:39:58 AM
- 732 Views
By the way, I'd appreciate if no one had hammer till FT has a chance to reply and vice-versa
17/11/2010 07:46:18 AM
- 720 Views
I have evidence in favor of and yet against F-T's claim. Take it as you will.
17/11/2010 07:18:35 PM
- 806 Views
Slight EBWOP
17/11/2010 07:20:58 PM
- 805 Views
Re: Slight EBWOP
17/11/2010 07:24:34 PM
- 703 Views
Uh, that doesn't make a lot of sense
17/11/2010 07:22:59 PM
- 752 Views
That's fair. Sanity can actually be called into question now.
17/11/2010 07:26:34 PM
- 725 Views
Re: That's fair. Sanity can actually be called into question now.
17/11/2010 08:01:20 PM
- 797 Views
Actually that sounds a good plan
17/11/2010 08:06:50 PM
- 709 Views
Glad to hear you agree with yourself
17/11/2010 08:14:42 PM
- 819 Views
:/ Wanna mention this before I forget. Little niggling that's been bugging me.
17/11/2010 03:03:27 AM
- 730 Views
Ah yes, I noticed that as well
17/11/2010 04:08:15 AM
- 726 Views
I just caught that
17/11/2010 04:53:16 AM
- 842 Views
No, I don't mean Cop.
17/11/2010 05:29:36 AM
- 753 Views
Re: No, I don't mean Cop.
17/11/2010 05:34:46 AM
- 765 Views
I trust him because of the way he's been acting.
17/11/2010 06:30:26 PM
- 809 Views
Complete sidetrack.
17/11/2010 07:28:31 PM
- 829 Views
Re: Complete sidetrack.
17/11/2010 07:33:51 PM
- 711 Views
I can't seem to find the post about that arrangement we had, incidentally.
17/11/2010 05:38:53 AM
- 666 Views
Re: I can't seem to find the post about that arrangement we had, incidentally.
17/11/2010 06:04:08 AM
- 696 Views
Re: I can't seem to find the post about that arrangement we had, incidentally.
17/11/2010 06:25:05 AM
- 759 Views
Re: I can't seem to find the post about that arrangement we had, incidentally.
17/11/2010 06:50:04 AM
- 710 Views
In the interests of honesty, now would probably be a good time to mention ...
17/11/2010 09:22:14 PM
- 750 Views
What the balls?
17/11/2010 09:52:04 PM
- 746 Views
I still only see one way for this day to end
18/11/2010 02:02:03 PM
- 717 Views
Re: I still only see one way for this day to end
18/11/2010 03:18:50 PM
- 689 Views
Its probably the blind mason loyalty thing, but I'm inclined to trust Isaac.
18/11/2010 05:16:28 PM
- 882 Views
Re: Its probably the blind mason loyalty thing, but I'm inclined to trust Isaac.
18/11/2010 06:00:06 PM
- 735 Views
Re: I still only see one way for this day to end
19/11/2010 03:48:52 PM
- 733 Views
Your accusation on ? seems a little unrealistic
19/11/2010 06:34:54 PM
- 727 Views
I'd also like to point out that we know nothing about you
18/11/2010 03:37:08 PM
- 702 Views
i don't know much about comics but
18/11/2010 05:45:10 PM
- 750 Views
Re: i don't know much about comics but
18/11/2010 05:49:54 PM
- 695 Views
They're also Marvel characters
18/11/2010 06:30:11 PM
- 752 Views
LOL, duly noted
18/11/2010 06:48:08 PM
- 772 Views
Beast is really surprisingly un-beastly.
18/11/2010 06:28:15 PM
- 790 Views
Sure
18/11/2010 06:42:01 PM
- 766 Views
Alright, to hell with this. Let's test F-T's sanity. Vote: Isaac *NM*
21/11/2010 08:29:53 PM
- 482 Views
Ah, the frustration vote, normally my best friend
21/11/2010 09:58:18 PM
- 740 Views
OK, here's a question for beet:
21/11/2010 10:37:08 PM
- 728 Views
You're not suggesting we lynch F-T instead of Isaac, are you?
21/11/2010 11:17:19 PM
- 732 Views
But we do get information
22/11/2010 12:17:20 AM
- 756 Views
<-- Btw, first time I got the hammer vote. My life is now complete. *NM*
22/11/2010 12:20:53 AM
- 458 Views
Well, congrats *NM*
22/11/2010 12:32:34 AM
- 488 Views
Since this is a first for both of us...
22/11/2010 12:35:29 AM
- 732 Views
When someone dies, you find out their role. "Psycho Cop" is a distinct role.
21/11/2010 11:22:50 PM
- 738 Views
Isaac wonders how he could be lynched without scum involvement...
22/11/2010 12:00:31 AM
- 697 Views
Re: Isaac wonders how he could be lynched without scum involvement...
22/11/2010 12:21:01 AM
- 805 Views
Isaac has been lynched!
22/11/2010 03:10:01 AM
- 640 Views
I can't help but feel a silver bullet would have been appropriate
22/11/2010 04:11:13 AM
- 620 Views
I find that astounding, considering the level of suspicion generally laid upon you *NM*
22/11/2010 04:16:04 AM
- 522 Views
I might just mount your head on my wall .
22/11/2010 05:09:45 AM
- 816 Views
I consider myself an integral part in this group.
22/11/2010 05:27:12 AM
- 806 Views