After reading through all of the defenses and thinking things over a bit, I've come to the same conclusion that I originally had. I really, really don't like seeing no-lynch as a serious suggestion.
Not liking it as a serious suggestion doesn't make its suggester a scummer, and under the circumstances, posting slump and how I'd proposed it during the previous posting slump, its a bit of a jump to assume I cheerfully wanted a no lynch to go down or something.
Is it? As you say, it's the second day in a row that you suggested one, and you followed the same formula both times. You made an argument against someone and when the town didn't follow suit you suggested no-lynch as an alternative. Yesterday everyone went along with your earlier plan and lynched White Flame. Maybe today you thought that they really would go with the no-lynch?
As F-T said, lynching is the only power that townies have as a group, and it's one of the very foundations of the game. Barring an extremely good vigilante, if we don't lynch, we won't win. If we don't have any evidence or any good targets, we should either dig deeper and try harder to find something, or we should lynch someone at random.
How about digging deeper, thus far no player besides myself had done any digging at all, and when I threw my shovel done and said 'seriously, help me dig or forget this new well' people decided to pick me up throw me down the well... without doing any digging on me either. All that's proven thus far is that you guys wanted a random lynch.
We just want a lynch. Obviously we'd prefer a well-reasoned one with a high probability of catching scum, but random lynch is better than no-lynch.
I've seen your arguments against random lynches, Isaac, and I must disagree with your conclusion. A random lynch is better than no lynch. It's true, as you say, that there is no skill or strategy involved if the lynch is truly random, but at least by trusting in pure dumb luck we still have a chance to win. If we vote to no-lynch, we're giving up. We'd be giving up at least on the day, and if we did it more often we'd be giving up on the game.
It does give a chance to 'win', its just a Pyrrhic Victory, the same as offering to flip a coin. It means nothing, in my opinion a no lynch is little better, but its a day not a game, because its trading more night actions for a NK. I don't like either option but no one was doing anything.
Except that in your case, it would become an empty victory either way. If you're telling the truth about your role (and if you're not, we'd have to lynch you for that too) then you don't have any night actions. You're trading your own ability to act during the day to count on someone else's ability to accomplish something productive at night. We can all probably be certain by now that we are in a fairly heavily roled game, but there's still no guarantee that the people with those roles will make the right choices. We could very well end up in exactly the same place tomorrow, except that the Skrull will have gotten a free kill out of it. I don't know about you, but I would never even consider making that sacrifice if I didn't have some amazing night powers. I probably wouldn't even consider it then.
So there we have it. Even if you are a hero, trying for a no-lynch is a scummy thing to do. I think you should be lynched on principle, just for that.
So even though you realize its not an indicator I'm scum, suggesting it, even when it was obviously designed to prod people to action to avoid it effectively happening by deadline or double modkill, is cause to kill me.
If it was indeed just a ploy to get people talking, then I would understand and even applaud the effort. If that was your intention though, it was not as obvious as you seem to think.
Besides, there is clear precedent for lynching people who demonstrate anti-town behavior even if they are not prob-scum.
And I think you will be, unless you can put forth a strong argument against someone else.
I suspect I will be able to do that. First, answer me too questions
Good, I'll look forward to seeing what you have. Meanwhile, I think that I will keep my vote where it is for now.
Do you think I thought we would vote for a no lynch? (I was surprised even one person voted for it but he's new)
It's possible. As I said, your suggestion followed the same basic formula as Day 1's, except that this time you actually voted for it. Maybe after lynching a townie yesterday you really did believe you could get a no-lynch today.
And if no, what would my motives be, as scum or town, for doing it? I mean I assume nobody's decided I suddenly do stuff for no reason. What motive would I have as a scummer who had little to no reason to think a no lynch would happen and would draw suspicion, to do such a thing?
As a townie, I suppose it could just be that you like trying new things. In the Pirates vs Ninjas game you suggested the encrypted mass roleclaim even though you admitted that you didn't think it would happen and even though early mass roleclaims are a bit scummy in their own rights. That one worked out very well for the town. As a townie, it is possible that you really were trying to help, although I would say that this particular tactic was misguided at best.
As scum, there are many reasons why you might employ such a strategy. You are, after all, the player who once won a game for the mafia by not using your night kill. It's hard to say what plans or plots you could be using.
It's also hard to say what additional powers and effects could be in play, since we know that this is a heavily roled game. Maybe you have some special Skrull power that gives you an extra nightkill if the town doesn't lynch someone? Maybe if the Negative Zone transporter thingy isn't on cooldown like it was yesterday you could throw someone into it?
There are just too many unknown variables at this time to be certain.
If you have no answer, then the only one which fits is that I did it to get people talking again, and that is pro-town and pro-game and I point out, was very successful, if not quite in the fashion I expected.
This is still possible, and it is the only scenario that looks good for you. I do want to see what else you can come up with, but right now I still think you're our best option.
RAFO Mafia 19: Superlative Crisis! ISSUE TWO: BLACK MAGIC- WHOA, MAN!
03/11/2010 04:59:59 AM
- 2543 Views
I see two avenues to discuss here
03/11/2010 11:41:14 AM
- 766 Views
I was thinking about number 1.
03/11/2010 10:00:57 PM
- 781 Views
Regarding 2, and let me suggets a 3
04/11/2010 02:30:41 AM
- 836 Views
I, personally, agree with Isaac so here goes.
04/11/2010 11:33:07 PM
- 760 Views
O.......K..........
05/11/2010 11:43:14 PM
- 737 Views
Did Fist use his power last Night?
06/11/2010 03:41:05 AM
- 773 Views
It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
06/11/2010 04:53:19 AM
- 758 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
06/11/2010 05:30:00 PM
- 745 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
06/11/2010 07:15:11 PM
- 799 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
07/11/2010 08:18:16 AM
- 849 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
07/11/2010 03:38:37 PM
- 802 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
07/11/2010 06:42:10 PM
- 836 Views
Huh, well Fox straight up told us his Mason group was a 3rd Fraction on Night 1
11/11/2010 12:55:50 AM
- 793 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
07/11/2010 06:16:29 PM
- 847 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
07/11/2010 07:16:20 PM
- 788 Views
Re: It's one of three plausible explanations for his death
07/11/2010 09:29:12 PM
- 864 Views
I am about 95% sure that WF targeted me last Night.
11/11/2010 01:04:34 AM
- 754 Views
Interesting.
11/11/2010 02:25:07 AM
- 816 Views
It's certainly possible.
11/11/2010 02:39:00 AM
- 806 Views
Now I'm curious
11/11/2010 03:33:46 AM
- 841 Views
Presumably because I'm not trying to get her lynched.
11/11/2010 03:53:54 AM
- 849 Views
Yeah, I'm going with that #3 there.
04/11/2010 05:41:04 AM
- 839 Views
Re: Yeah, I'm going with that #3 there.
04/11/2010 04:18:17 PM
- 855 Views
a scummer got caught on day one in the tower game
04/11/2010 06:42:15 PM
- 823 Views
also there was that time someone said they saw a black light instead of white
04/11/2010 07:52:41 PM
- 821 Views
That was Hobo in DK's crossover game. *NM*
04/11/2010 08:16:07 PM
- 454 Views
You know we could just forget about that. I wouldn't complain. *NM*
05/11/2010 08:35:03 PM
- 493 Views
Hypocop? *NM*
03/11/2010 03:20:17 PM
- 499 Views
So help me I will spoil the entirety of ToM, people! (not just yet, though)
10/11/2010 02:51:46 AM
- 720 Views
I'm pretty sure if you do, you'll be lynched. *NM*
10/11/2010 09:19:43 PM
- 466 Views
Vote: No Lynch
13/11/2010 12:24:43 AM
- 820 Views
I am very much opposed to this idea
13/11/2010 02:04:27 PM
- 737 Views
Then offer an alternative
13/11/2010 11:10:42 PM
- 783 Views
Why is an inactive likely to be a townie?
14/11/2010 04:03:35 AM
- 718 Views
Re: Why is an inactive likely to be a townie?
14/11/2010 04:21:12 AM
- 815 Views
I had no RBIRL because my computer died.
14/11/2010 06:52:56 AM
- 704 Views
Ah, I see you did unvote. Very well. I still got my eye on you. *NM*
14/11/2010 06:55:30 AM
- 412 Views
LOL - I guess this is also my informal defense
14/11/2010 08:52:56 AM
- 787 Views
Saying it's not out-of-character to be scummy doesn't make you any less scummy.
14/11/2010 04:33:15 PM
- 817 Views
Watch the difference between what he says and what he is accused of.
14/11/2010 07:08:08 PM
- 679 Views
After this whole argument I've had with FT...
13/11/2010 11:42:32 PM
- 751 Views
People who vote for totally random lynches don't deserve to win
14/11/2010 03:43:14 AM
- 722 Views
Re: People who vote for totally random lynches don't deserve to win
14/11/2010 02:23:04 PM
- 893 Views
Vote: Isaac
13/11/2010 11:58:56 PM
- 838 Views
Re: Vote: Isaac
14/11/2010 03:02:15 AM
- 738 Views
Re: Vote: Isaac
14/11/2010 04:02:30 AM
- 816 Views
What was scummy?
14/11/2010 04:10:12 AM
- 853 Views
Re: What was scummy?
14/11/2010 05:41:44 AM
- 772 Views
Extrmely thin
14/11/2010 06:05:32 AM
- 923 Views
Actually...
14/11/2010 06:55:02 AM
- 827 Views
Re: Actually...
14/11/2010 07:44:33 AM
- 784 Views
Did you guys just blitz me?
14/11/2010 11:35:58 PM
- 815 Views
Your not hammered yet are you?
14/11/2010 11:46:29 PM
- 748 Views
I think I might be, can never be sure what votes are worth in a heavy role game
14/11/2010 11:50:51 PM
- 771 Views
I'm potentially alive on a technicality
15/11/2010 12:02:36 AM
- 670 Views
Why don't you go ahead and claim then?
15/11/2010 12:11:03 AM
- 756 Views
Sure
15/11/2010 12:34:34 AM
- 727 Views
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
15/11/2010 02:13:23 AM
- 834 Views
I think so.
15/11/2010 01:25:46 AM
- 736 Views
Also, I must confess...
15/11/2010 01:32:44 AM
- 751 Views
Re: Also, I must confess...
15/11/2010 01:58:26 AM
- 877 Views
Yes, I would expect so.
15/11/2010 02:22:06 AM
- 693 Views
Re: Yes, I would expect so.
15/11/2010 02:35:49 AM
- 795 Views
I'm unvoting only if the defence is really foolproof, since now no-one can hammer without instantly
15/11/2010 07:18:05 AM
- 766 Views
EBWOP - The "only" in the title is rebundant, it was part of different title I abandoned. *NM*
15/11/2010 07:19:46 AM
- 485 Views
I guess the first title stands afterall I won't automatically unvote just because none should hammer
15/11/2010 08:19:00 AM
- 683 Views
I'll try to help Isaac out a bit here.
15/11/2010 01:11:11 PM
- 644 Views
Thanks, and a question too
15/11/2010 01:30:17 PM
- 687 Views
Well, I'll unvote if the third mason comes forward too. *NM*
15/11/2010 03:30:36 PM
- 454 Views
Jeez, when it rains, it pours
15/11/2010 10:34:54 PM
- 656 Views
OK Isaac
15/11/2010 11:14:45 PM
- 708 Views
My Defense Posts
16/11/2010 04:16:41 AM
- 727 Views
Defense A: The Fantastic Four
16/11/2010 04:31:11 AM
- 748 Views
Defense B: The Numbers Game
16/11/2010 04:36:59 AM
- 751 Views
"What motive would a scummer have"?
16/11/2010 05:56:04 PM
- 724 Views
Without any further questions though?
16/11/2010 11:51:42 PM
- 779 Views
If you see an avalanche coming, you hop on board (NOT a metaphor).
17/11/2010 12:12:31 AM
- 718 Views
Defense C: The Intro Flavor
16/11/2010 04:41:31 AM
- 863 Views
Eh ...
16/11/2010 10:00:21 PM
- 704 Views
Re: Eh ...
17/11/2010 02:33:27 AM
- 773 Views
We'll take a look at that in turn, but first...
16/11/2010 07:01:22 AM
- 811 Views
Re: We'll take a look at that in turn, but first...
16/11/2010 01:40:21 PM
- 708 Views
Yes, that was it.
16/11/2010 09:05:04 PM
- 738 Views
Re: Yes, that was it.
17/11/2010 02:55:58 AM
- 754 Views
Not at all.
17/11/2010 03:04:50 AM
- 772 Views
Well, that's a borderline lie
17/11/2010 04:29:47 AM
- 815 Views
How do you figure?
17/11/2010 05:46:37 AM
- 717 Views
I'd say its pretty pertinent to my defense
17/11/2010 06:49:20 AM
- 707 Views
All right, fair enough.
17/11/2010 07:19:37 AM
- 828 Views
Thanks for whakcing me before going to bed
17/11/2010 07:39:58 AM
- 733 Views
By the way, I'd appreciate if no one had hammer till FT has a chance to reply and vice-versa
17/11/2010 07:46:18 AM
- 721 Views
I have evidence in favor of and yet against F-T's claim. Take it as you will.
17/11/2010 07:18:35 PM
- 806 Views
Slight EBWOP
17/11/2010 07:20:58 PM
- 806 Views
Re: Slight EBWOP
17/11/2010 07:24:34 PM
- 704 Views
Uh, that doesn't make a lot of sense
17/11/2010 07:22:59 PM
- 753 Views
That's fair. Sanity can actually be called into question now.
17/11/2010 07:26:34 PM
- 725 Views
Re: That's fair. Sanity can actually be called into question now.
17/11/2010 08:01:20 PM
- 798 Views
Actually that sounds a good plan
17/11/2010 08:06:50 PM
- 710 Views
Glad to hear you agree with yourself
17/11/2010 08:14:42 PM
- 820 Views
Vote: Isaac
17/11/2010 12:45:26 AM
- 725 Views
Re: Vote: Isaac
17/11/2010 02:05:03 AM
- 756 Views
Re: Vote: Isaac
17/11/2010 03:12:21 AM
- 825 Views
:/ Wanna mention this before I forget. Little niggling that's been bugging me.
17/11/2010 03:03:27 AM
- 731 Views
Ah yes, I noticed that as well
17/11/2010 04:08:15 AM
- 727 Views
I just caught that
17/11/2010 04:53:16 AM
- 842 Views
No, I don't mean Cop.
17/11/2010 05:29:36 AM
- 754 Views
Re: No, I don't mean Cop.
17/11/2010 05:34:46 AM
- 766 Views
I trust him because of the way he's been acting.
17/11/2010 06:30:26 PM
- 810 Views
Complete sidetrack.
17/11/2010 07:28:31 PM
- 829 Views
Re: Complete sidetrack.
17/11/2010 07:33:51 PM
- 712 Views
I can't seem to find the post about that arrangement we had, incidentally.
17/11/2010 05:38:53 AM
- 666 Views
Re: I can't seem to find the post about that arrangement we had, incidentally.
17/11/2010 06:04:08 AM
- 696 Views
Re: I can't seem to find the post about that arrangement we had, incidentally.
17/11/2010 06:25:05 AM
- 760 Views
Re: I can't seem to find the post about that arrangement we had, incidentally.
17/11/2010 06:50:04 AM
- 711 Views
In the interests of honesty, now would probably be a good time to mention ...
17/11/2010 09:22:14 PM
- 751 Views
What the balls?
17/11/2010 09:52:04 PM
- 747 Views
I still only see one way for this day to end
18/11/2010 02:02:03 PM
- 718 Views
Re: I still only see one way for this day to end
18/11/2010 03:18:50 PM
- 689 Views
Its probably the blind mason loyalty thing, but I'm inclined to trust Isaac.
18/11/2010 05:16:28 PM
- 882 Views
Re: Its probably the blind mason loyalty thing, but I'm inclined to trust Isaac.
18/11/2010 06:00:06 PM
- 735 Views
I'd also like to point out that we know nothing about you
18/11/2010 03:37:08 PM
- 703 Views
i don't know much about comics but
18/11/2010 05:45:10 PM
- 751 Views
Re: i don't know much about comics but
18/11/2010 05:49:54 PM
- 696 Views
They're also Marvel characters
18/11/2010 06:30:11 PM
- 753 Views
LOL, duly noted
18/11/2010 06:48:08 PM
- 772 Views
Beast is really surprisingly un-beastly.
18/11/2010 06:28:15 PM
- 790 Views
Sure
18/11/2010 06:42:01 PM
- 767 Views
Alright, to hell with this. Let's test F-T's sanity. Vote: Isaac *NM*
21/11/2010 08:29:53 PM
- 483 Views
Ah, the frustration vote, normally my best friend
21/11/2010 09:58:18 PM
- 740 Views
OK, here's a question for beet:
21/11/2010 10:37:08 PM
- 728 Views
You're not suggesting we lynch F-T instead of Isaac, are you?
21/11/2010 11:17:19 PM
- 733 Views
But we do get information
22/11/2010 12:17:20 AM
- 756 Views
<-- Btw, first time I got the hammer vote. My life is now complete. *NM*
22/11/2010 12:20:53 AM
- 459 Views
Well, congrats *NM*
22/11/2010 12:32:34 AM
- 489 Views
Since this is a first for both of us...
22/11/2010 12:35:29 AM
- 732 Views
When someone dies, you find out their role. "Psycho Cop" is a distinct role.
21/11/2010 11:22:50 PM
- 739 Views
Isaac wonders how he could be lynched without scum involvement...
22/11/2010 12:00:31 AM
- 698 Views
Re: Isaac wonders how he could be lynched without scum involvement...
22/11/2010 12:21:01 AM
- 806 Views
Isaac has been lynched!
22/11/2010 03:10:01 AM
- 641 Views
I can't help but feel a silver bullet would have been appropriate
22/11/2010 04:11:13 AM
- 620 Views
I find that astounding, considering the level of suspicion generally laid upon you *NM*
22/11/2010 04:16:04 AM
- 523 Views
I might just mount your head on my wall .
22/11/2010 05:09:45 AM
- 817 Views
I consider myself an integral part in this group.
22/11/2010 05:27:12 AM
- 807 Views