Semirhage threw the entire Seanchan empire into chaos
Graendal did for both Arad Domon and Shara
Ishamael has a list of evil deeds that goes on and on ... including founding the DFs and BA, as well as setting up the Seanchan return
Sammael and Demandred are like Lanfear IMO, neither of them has accomplished much that we know of.
Lanfear did what exactly? A list of "almosts".
Graendal did for both Arad Domon and Shara
Ishamael has a list of evil deeds that goes on and on ... including founding the DFs and BA, as well as setting up the Seanchan return
Sammael and Demandred are like Lanfear IMO, neither of them has accomplished much that we know of.
Lanfear did what exactly? A list of "almosts".
Of all the Forsaken, only Graendal can potentially claim to have done something. Ishamael's deeds have all been unravelled in less than three years, most recently by Egwene who decapitated the BA in one fell swoop.
You keep coming back to this as something you can't judge Forsaken prowess on, yet all the other top dog managed to serve humanity and society enough to earn the 3rd name.
Of course I come back to it, because it's the worst point ever. It's like saying which Nazi generals were the best based on their charity before WW2.
I also find it interesting that she gave herself the name Lanfear when the others were all given scornful names by the rest of the world. Names they embraced, but were given because of the atrocities they were committing. Meanwhile whiny little Mierin picks her own out!
I really don't see how this is a point against her. Personally if someone called me 'Betrayer of Hope' I'd tell them to piss off and rename myself Zeus. LOL
She pulled a few Freddy Kruger dream kills out of her ass and made the ordinary folk panic, nothing particularly grand (in terms of FS deeds) in that. Sure she was hip deep in atrocity ... but the BWB is pretty damn vague and most of the FS "bios" read very similarly.
Which is exactly why you can't say that Lanfear is a lesser Forsaken. What we know of the War of Power is scanty and murky, with only a few details.
It also says she "claimed TAR" ... that's like me saying "I'm the ruler of the Sun, but you can all still benefit from it without any repercussions" ... fact is Moghedien was more skilled in TAR, and we saw Ishamael do more with TAR over the books that Lanfear.
I don't deny that Lanfear isn't the best in TAR, but she claimed it as her own. I really don't see once again how this is relevant.
So? Graendal at least accomplished other things while taking her pleasures. Lanfear failed at everything we saw her attempt!
Depends how you look at it.
Lanfear accomplished nothing in the series. Every plot she was involved in failed or blew up in her face! She's kind of like a combination of Mesaana and Moghedien ... big talk, but winds up getting tangled in her own webs.
Dude, no Forsaken achieved anything (except perhaps Graendal). They're all toast.
Yet all the other FS use TAR pretty consistently and she never did more than make a side comment about "making free use of my realm". RJ making Moghedien more skilled in TAR and showing Ishamael use it more extensively than Lanfear would be like us finding out that Mesaana is actually better at compulsion than Graendal and Aran'gar more sadistic than Semrihage. I think it's unfortunate actually, RJ could have done much more with her.
Which is exactly what RJ did do. He showed that Moghedien could be as cruel as Semirhage in her handling of Liandrin, and he showed that Rahvin was very proficient at Compulsion.
Really? Then how did Graendal nail her in about 1 minute? I agree, and have said as much, that Lanfear was personally very formidable. We saw any number of times that she was impressive as an enemy 1-1 ... I just don't think RJ developed her outside of being AN UNSTOPPABLE JUGGERNAUT of OP Strength. I'm unimpressed with that.
Do you mean when Graendal compelled she and Moghedien? They were told not to attack Graendal. They just stood there waiting for SH.
Wheel of Time board admin
Fan of Lanfear
Fan of Lanfear
Forsaken translations
- 17/06/2010 09:16:36 AM
2557 Views
Yeah...
- 17/06/2010 09:31:15 AM
1824 Views
Semirhage is named as "The Lady of Pain" in KoD, by Rand...
- 17/06/2010 11:14:56 AM
2165 Views
Do Semirhage & Bel'al actually mean those things or are they other nicknames?
- 17/06/2010 11:38:18 AM
1657 Views
Nice ideas!
- 17/06/2010 02:10:43 PM
1637 Views
The beauty of a re-read is that there are so many little gems I'd forgotten
- 17/06/2010 02:48:19 PM
1404 Views
Re: The beauty of a re-read is that there are so many little gems I'd forgotten
- 17/06/2010 04:43:48 PM
1558 Views
Gai'shain = those sworn to peace in battle
- 17/06/2010 09:22:02 PM
1463 Views
Gaidin = Brother to Battle ... which is what I think the OP meant to use
- 17/06/2010 09:32:20 PM
1419 Views
I always thought Lanfear probably translated to something closer to a Moon translation
- 17/06/2010 02:43:04 PM
1730 Views
it's the other way around...
- 17/06/2010 02:58:33 PM
1468 Views
good point
- 17/06/2010 03:13:17 PM
1459 Views
Re: good point
- 17/06/2010 04:05:50 PM
1501 Views
Not to mention she STILL hasn't earned a 3rd (or in 4th) name
- 17/06/2010 04:16:57 PM
1486 Views
What about Cyndane
- 17/06/2010 04:48:03 PM
1376 Views
- 17/06/2010 04:48:03 PM
1376 Views
It must be her favorite one, since it's the only one she actually earned
*NM*
- 17/06/2010 05:43:41 PM
761 Views
*NM*
- 17/06/2010 05:43:41 PM
761 Views
Well she earned Mierin
*NM*
- 17/06/2010 08:27:05 PM
886 Views
*NM*
- 17/06/2010 08:27:05 PM
886 Views
how so? I figured mom and dad gave that one too her
*NM*
- 17/06/2010 08:36:24 PM
785 Views
*NM*
- 17/06/2010 08:36:24 PM
785 Views
she earned it by being born... ha! gotcha
*NM*
- 17/06/2010 08:39:10 PM
742 Views
*NM*
- 17/06/2010 08:39:10 PM
742 Views
HA! But technically I think her mother earned that
*NM*
- 17/06/2010 08:58:30 PM
672 Views
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- 17/06/2010 08:58:30 PM
672 Views
Re: good point
- 17/06/2010 04:47:01 PM
1552 Views
Again, a self-proclaimed ownership aimed at making her seem more impressive
- 17/06/2010 05:55:12 PM
1458 Views
I disagree
- 17/06/2010 06:20:08 PM
1527 Views
Personally I think that order was off the cuff
- 17/06/2010 08:55:28 PM
1648 Views
Re: Personally I think that order was off the cuff
- 17/06/2010 09:02:06 PM
1593 Views
Disagree
- 17/06/2010 09:28:51 PM
1514 Views
Re: Disagree
- 17/06/2010 09:41:23 PM
1456 Views
I'm not being very clear
- 17/06/2010 10:14:10 PM
1475 Views
Re: I'm not being very clear
- 18/06/2010 08:06:56 AM
3933 Views
Re: I'm not being very clear
- 18/06/2010 03:33:12 PM
1481 Views
Re: I'm not being very clear
- 18/06/2010 04:35:12 PM
1338 Views
The point isn't if Lanfear has the skill, it's that it was poorly shown.
- 18/06/2010 05:31:11 PM
1506 Views
The statement makes clear that those 6 were all quite impressive
- 17/06/2010 10:51:49 PM
1290 Views
I don't see that bearing out in the text at all
- 17/06/2010 10:57:36 PM
1498 Views
Like Etzel I don't agree
- 17/06/2010 08:30:37 PM
1392 Views
I think she's a weak villain
- 17/06/2010 08:58:01 PM
1344 Views
Re: I think she's a weak villain
- 17/06/2010 09:03:47 PM
1457 Views
and slaughter the Seanchan empress on her own throne thowing the empire into chaos
- 17/06/2010 09:30:27 PM
1489 Views
Semirhage has done more than anyone since Ishy destroyed the Ten Nations
- 18/06/2010 02:06:30 AM
1453 Views
Regarding "Demandred" ...
- 17/06/2010 04:51:43 PM
1473 Views
I always thought it was a coincidence
- 17/06/2010 08:32:39 PM
1599 Views
Lan/Lanfear isn't a coincidence...
- 18/06/2010 12:19:58 AM
1420 Views
Re: Lan/Lanfear isn't a coincidence...
- 20/06/2010 07:01:55 PM
1540 Views
Perhaps Lan-fear meaning Night-Daughter would make more sense
- 17/06/2010 06:00:35 PM
1502 Views
Re: Perhaps Lan-fear meaning Night-Daughter would make more sense
- 18/06/2010 04:23:38 PM
1701 Views
And Dragon translations...
- 17/06/2010 10:53:02 PM
1600 Views
Re: And Dragon translations...
- 17/06/2010 11:01:25 PM
1427 Views
Why would they call themselves "Spears of the fictional creature"?
- 18/06/2010 12:29:49 AM
1383 Views
It was meant as a joke, but really it could be some generic term rather than meaning
- 18/06/2010 06:00:36 AM
1420 Views
Except that they don't know what a 'Dragon' is, except as it relates to Lews Therin/Rand
- 18/06/2010 05:11:30 PM
1406 Views
like I said, I was just making a joke of it ... you are quite right with "Rand's Spears"
- 18/06/2010 05:32:42 PM
1247 Views
But of course the NT word for Dragon isn't Dragon
- 18/06/2010 05:45:34 PM
1657 Views
If "aman" is the Old Tongue name for Dragon, maybe "DEMANdred" contains a reference to Dragon too...
- 20/06/2010 08:13:35 PM
1679 Views
"Dragon Wannabe"
*NM*
- 20/06/2010 09:23:09 PM
636 Views
*NM*
- 20/06/2010 09:23:09 PM
636 Views
Lizard? *NM*
- 20/06/2010 10:04:21 PM
828 Views
"Scaled Worm"... though I doubt he'd take that name up in pride
. *NM*
- 22/06/2010 01:23:03 AM
722 Views
. *NM*
- 22/06/2010 01:23:03 AM
722 Views
It's probably too much to attempt to guess at the meanings of words...
- 17/06/2010 10:58:06 PM
1237 Views


*NM*