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Re: Chipping in... fionwe1987 Send a noteboard - 05/07/2010 09:16:51 AM

I assume that, during the nightmare, you do believe it's real. Again, I can't speak with any certainty, because I don't really remember any dream from after I was six, but I assume that the fear you felt was lingering from while you were dreaming, at which point you did believe it was real. Even though you now know that it wasn't, the fear lingers on from when you didn't.

Actually, no. I'm usually lucid in those dreams that I remember, so I'm fully aware of the fact that this is a dream. This is hardly true of everyone, but a lot of people report a surreal feeling when they dream.

Further, even if you believe that emotions are felt only if you believed the dream was real, my point about how you feel emotions while watching movies or reading books still stands.

Just because the Novice comes out crying doesn't mean she believes what she saw was real. Take Egwene's third test. She was certainly far more aware than is usual in the arches, yet she comes out deeply pissed that she had to leave Rand again. Though she knew the events weren't real, she felt very strong emotions about them.

Likewise, my argument was that the reason the girls are sobbing in their rooms together after the test indicates that they did believe it was real during the test.

But one doesn't follow the other. People feel emotions for lots of fake things. Also, take what are called "Dreams of absent-minded transgressions". These are documented and well studied examples of where a person dreams of something they want to prevent themselves from doing while awake. There are theories that these help overcome addictions. Not only does the person feel immediate guilt upon waking up, but what they feel from it drives them to alter conscious behavior. Which proves quite conclusively that believing in a dream has nothing to do with feeling emotions related to what you dream.

The opposite situation would be, for example, a haunted house. I've only ever seen one person afraid in a haunted house - and that was because there were spiderwebs and she was arachnophobic. You hear a lot of people scream, and see them jump, but that's not fear, that's surprise. You're already on edge because you know people are going to jump at you in tiny hallways where you can't clearly see what's going on, so when they do, you're already primed to react, and you do react. That's what they call a 'jump-scare', but it's not fear. People aren't afraid because they know it's fake. Only the surprise is real.

But that's an unfair example, at least in comparison to dreams. You don't enter a dream knowing its going to be fake. You figure it out as you go along. Things don't make sense, and hey presto, you know its a dream and start having fun.
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I think the Amayar are the stupidest people ever - 30/06/2010 08:52:45 PM 2489 Views
It's the Jones Town massacre - 30/06/2010 09:33:42 PM 1091 Views
Re: It's the Jones Town massacre - 03/07/2010 09:27:35 AM 1015 Views
yeah, I despise fanatics of any type - 30/06/2010 09:44:08 PM 1197 Views
Can't agree with all of those. - 30/06/2010 10:58:25 PM 1152 Views
Yeah, I disagree too... - 01/07/2010 02:28:13 AM 1150 Views
Re: Yeah, I disagree too... - 01/07/2010 03:20:30 AM 964 Views
I'm not sure. - 01/07/2010 03:45:44 AM 1058 Views
Difficult to say. - 01/07/2010 05:09:46 AM 1022 Views
Curse you, I had to go look up Nynaeve's Testing. - 01/07/2010 06:20:06 PM 1084 Views
Nope, still can't agree. - 01/07/2010 06:40:25 PM 989 Views
I'm not going to argue that it's a good test - 01/07/2010 08:51:31 PM 913 Views
Re: I'm not going to argue that it's a good test - 01/07/2010 10:26:24 PM 991 Views
IMO, they do. - 02/07/2010 12:22:41 AM 959 Views
Okay different angle, - 02/07/2010 12:27:57 AM 835 Views
Re: Okay different angle, - 03/07/2010 08:29:09 PM 952 Views
Re: Okay different angle, - 03/07/2010 09:28:20 PM 876 Views
You really don't remember your dreams very often? - 03/07/2010 11:41:57 PM 953 Views
Haven't since I was a wee little kid. - 04/07/2010 12:54:11 AM 1045 Views
Re: Haven't since I was a wee little kid. - 05/07/2010 06:02:24 AM 892 Views
- 05/07/2010 06:59:09 AM 884 Views
Chipping in... - 04/07/2010 01:11:26 AM 944 Views
Re: Chipping in... - 04/07/2010 02:44:21 AM 1044 Views
Re: Chipping in... - 05/07/2010 09:16:51 AM 1074 Views
You may be right. - 05/07/2010 05:53:21 PM 962 Views
Fair enough - 01/07/2010 08:53:05 AM 1203 Views
Owyn helped his village? - 01/07/2010 11:23:37 AM 1006 Views
Yeah - 01/07/2010 12:31:03 PM 1016 Views
Easier than you think - 01/07/2010 12:42:39 PM 917 Views
Yes, I suppose they could. - 01/07/2010 06:16:38 PM 1042 Views
Human beings have a pretty large capacity for "stupid" behavior - 30/06/2010 09:47:27 PM 1004 Views
I'm certain that RJ based it off of something in real life - 30/06/2010 10:30:06 PM 978 Views
Re: I'm certain that RJ based it off of something in real life - 01/07/2010 01:39:50 AM 1069 Views
and those crazy comet people in San Diego in the late 90's too! - 01/07/2010 03:49:59 PM 977 Views
Perhaps. - 30/06/2010 10:23:42 PM 964 Views
IMO that makes them even worse! - 30/06/2010 10:33:03 PM 921 Views
Considering that their system of belief... - 30/06/2010 11:55:12 PM 889 Views
But they could have played a part Singing, just like the Tinkers to which they're related may do *NM* - 01/07/2010 09:08:46 AM 491 Views
Because their feeble ability to sing to crops would really come in handy. - 01/07/2010 05:43:03 PM 1070 Views
There are other SOngs than seed-singing. - 01/07/2010 06:26:54 PM 981 Views
Even if there are. They've been lost. And humanity has lost that Talent. - 01/07/2010 10:28:30 PM 840 Views
Only second-hand. - 01/07/2010 10:49:58 PM 1096 Views
the Tinkers will at least make themselves useful as we saw in the BoEF - 01/07/2010 03:49:08 PM 925 Views
The Tinkers are also on the mainland... - 01/07/2010 05:36:40 PM 839 Views
to be fair, if I were an Amayar I would try to respawn as well *NM* - 01/07/2010 04:29:02 AM 935 Views
Take it from a lazy person's PoV: - 01/07/2010 10:51:07 AM 1021 Views
LOL *NM* - 01/07/2010 03:53:31 PM 426 Views
You know... - 01/07/2010 06:42:41 PM 948 Views
But something of you still contiunes on. - 01/07/2010 10:30:12 PM 871 Views
Indeed - 01/07/2010 10:37:03 PM 895 Views
None of the Forsaken will pay for their crimes? - 01/07/2010 10:54:30 PM 929 Views
Re: None of the Forsaken will pay for their crimes? - 02/07/2010 12:01:35 AM 850 Views
Well, yes, but that's only temporary . - 02/07/2010 12:27:07 AM 1028 Views
From my perspective, that is meaningless. - 01/07/2010 10:52:22 PM 827 Views
Given how often Prophecies are right in that world... - 01/07/2010 02:33:21 AM 904 Views
They should work to ensure there's a place to be reborn in. - 01/07/2010 08:10:46 PM 814 Views
Yeah, pretty crazy - 01/07/2010 01:17:33 PM 953 Views
Why? - 01/07/2010 03:20:36 PM 893 Views
Presumably, - 01/07/2010 06:45:02 PM 953 Views
Clear something up for me. - 01/07/2010 06:33:07 PM 962 Views
They aren't. - 01/07/2010 10:35:38 PM 861 Views
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The Amayar suck, but people believe crazy things - 01/07/2010 09:22:45 PM 1089 Views

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